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JWH 04-23-2007 08:18 PM

Aggressive Angelfish
 
Hi. I'm new to this forum, but my husband and I desperately need help.

We have two full grown angel fish in a 38 gal aquarium (along with seven serpae tetras, two chinese algae eaters, and a white cloud minnow). We moved all of the fish from their original 20 gal and 5 gal into the 38 gal approx. three weeks ago. Before we moved them, the black marble angel (Acute) was a little aggressive, but we hoped that moving them to a larger tank would help. Unfortunately, the aggression has just gotten worse. He bullies the other angel fish (Obtuse), including chasing him into a corner and ramming into him. I haven't seen any wounds on Obtuse yet, but I'm afraid that it's only a matter of time.

We tried taking Acute out, rearranging the tank (including adding more plants for hiding places) and then putting him back in hoping that he would think that it was "new" tank, but within five minutes he was beating up on Obtuse again.

At this point, we're not sure what else to do. I've read that getting another angelfish might help, but all of the angelfish I've found around this area are too tiny and would become fish food. I also worry that it would just add to the problem.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Enzo 04-23-2007 08:55 PM

angels tend to get agressive when theres only 2 one or 3+ arnt nearly as agressive the main reason y it may be agressive is they may be starting to mate

Arash 04-24-2007 12:53 AM

hi
the problem you faced is about some reasons:

1- they are adults and ready to spawn.

or
2- they have the same sex ( I think both of them are male)

3- there are not enough rooms for them.

4- the place you have made for them has a top speed water movements in some places.

the first sulotion I offer is that buy about 4 to 8 more angels

( 6 is a good chanse to make 2 or 3 pairs.)

the second slow down the water movements.
or
make a special place for them to breed

Falina 04-24-2007 07:03 AM

Quote:

the first sulotion I offer is that buy about 4 to 8 more angels

( 6 is a good chanse to make 2 or 3 pairs.)
It's true that they are less agressive in groups however in a 38g tank, I wouldn't recommend any more angelfish. Even another 2 would make it very overcrowded and they get very large fully grown.

JWH 04-24-2007 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arash
hi
the problem you faced is about some reasons:

1- they are adults and ready to spawn.

I thought that was the problem at first, but the aggression has escalated and changed since then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arash
2- they have the same sex ( I think both of them are male)

That's probably it, but what would be a solution?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arash
3- there are not enough rooms for them.

They seemed okay in 20 gallons - the aggression has gotten worse since we moved them to a larger tank.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arash
4- the place you have made for them has a top speed water movements in some places.

There isn't any fast current in that tank.


Quote:

Originally Posted by juliewiegand
It's true that they are less agressive in groups however in a 38g tank, I wouldn't recommend any more angelfish. Even another 2 would make it very overcrowded and they get very large fully grown.

What about one more angel? I've read that angels need 10 gallons each at full grown. Both are already full grown, but I wouldn't want to put more than three total.

If I was to do that, I can only find very tiny nickel-sized ones at the LPS. Would a new one even have a chance (given enough hiding places and a back up emergency tank if things went badly)?

jones57742 04-24-2007 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JWH
What about one more angel? I've read that angels need 10 gallons each at full grown. Both are already full grown, but I wouldn't want to put more than three total.

Are you sure they are grown? This word implies angels whose bodies are 6" to 8" from the bottom of their body to the top of their body.

I have not posted as I was hoping that their aggressive behavior would cease once your angels became accustomed to their new environment but as they have not I have "been there and done that".

Please note that I have 7 angels.

Since they have gotten older (approximately 3" to 5") I observed minor and infrequent hostile encounters (due to what I believe was establishing the "pecking order").

In a previous post current was mentioned. Approximately a week after I changed the current patterns in my tank "all kinds of commotion commenced". The angels were fighting with each other and harassing the other fish in my community tank unmercifully.

I
1) changed the current patterns again (although not back to the original patterns) and
2) began feeding in minor quantities every couple of hours while the lights were on.

Within several days the hostilities had ceased.

TR

JWH 04-24-2007 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jones57742
1) changed the current patterns again (although not back to the original patterns) and
2) began feeding in minor quantities every couple of hours while the lights were on.

The only current is made by the filter. We can try adding some bubblers.

We feed them twice a day. Interestingly, the only time they aren't aggressive is during feeding time.

They are certainly full grown.

There is only one angelfish that is the problem (not them picking on each other): he picks on the other angel and occasionally on the smaller tetras (but much less often). The other angel isn't aggressive at all - he just huddles in a corner trying not to be noticed.

Falina 04-24-2007 01:50 PM

Quote:

There is only one angelfish that is the problem (not them picking on each other): he picks on the other angel and occasionally on the smaller tetras (but much less often). The other angel isn't aggressive at all - he just huddles in a corner trying not to be noticed.
I've never kept angels but I'm pretty sure that in a pair, this would be the case. A pecking order is established and a dominant fish is "elected". In a group, the dominant fish will bully all the others a little bit, hence none of them becoming stressed as this is natural group behaviour and each are only receiving a small amount of the bullying, but in a pair, the dominant fish can only bully the other one, and so the other becomes much more strssed and will normally hide, or cower away.

JWH 04-24-2007 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juliewiegand
I've never kept angels but I'm pretty sure that in a pair, this would be the case. A pecking order is established and a dominant fish is "elected". In a group, the dominant fish will bully all the others a little bit, hence none of them becoming stressed as this is natural group behaviour and each are only receiving a small amount of the bullying, but in a pair, the dominant fish can only bully the other one, and so the other becomes much more strssed and will normally hide, or cower away.

If that's the case, would it be possible to add another angel, even if was smaller and took a little while to grow? That way it would spread out the stress a little more evenly. I don't have a problem with adding another angel if there's room and the new one wouldn't become a snack.

Lupin 04-24-2007 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JWH
If that's the case, would it be possible to add another angel, even if was smaller and took a little while to grow? That way it would spread out the stress a little more evenly. I don't have a problem with adding another angel if there's room and the new one wouldn't become a snack.

No. The smallest will likely become a runt in time and will be bullied to death in no time. Note that it will even be considered as an intruder to your tank as well so it'll take a few considerable beatings to kill it.


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