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-   -   Ich AND Fungus?!? Lucky me! (http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/tropical-fish-diseases/ich-fungus-lucky-me-4950/)

elisa 04-12-2007 09:21 AM

Ich AND Fungus?!? Lucky me!
 
Hi,

I am new at this hobby so please bear with me and my many questions:

I have a 10 gallon tank, not fully cycled yet, I don't have the exact levels with me right now, but I know I don't have ammonia, plus the nitrites are a bit high, I think at around 3.0 (I'm trying to remember from yesterday) and the nitrates at 40 or 80. I did a partial water change last night.

I had a box filter that has been running from the beginning of the tank (6 weeks) but that I messed up, because not knowing better, I kept throwing away the filter floss with all of the bacteria...way to go! :(

Now I know a bit better, so the floss is staying, plus I bought a better filter, AquaClear 30, and I am having both running until the new one has its own bacteria bed going.

But, the problem is with my guppies. I have ICH (or is it ICK?). One of my girls has is, I noticed yesterday and this morning one of the boy has hints of it. I have 10 guppies in there and 2 clown loaches, how should I treat them?

I read about salt, but can salt alone treat them? Plus I keep reading different opinions as to when to put the salt: directly into the tank, or to diluite it outside the tank first, which one is right? Also is it true that you can use regular salt?

Anyway I think I will get medication tonight too, so which med is good for guppies and the clowns?

One more question: I have one female guppy that I recently bought that has me thinking... first of all her color is all weird (yeah I know I am stupid I didn't really check her at the store). She is very black from mid-body to the tail, so black that makes me think maybe she could be dyed. Are there natural "very black" guppies? I call her my goth guppy but now I am worried about her. Also she has along one side of her body like an albino patch. Basically there is a good sized spot with no color, like flesh color, different from the black tail, but also different from the rest of her color. What could it be? Could it be fungus? Or could it be normal? She looks ok otherwise (until now watch her catch ich), except I noticed that one of the clown loaches picks on her, and he has never picked on anyone else before. What could that mean?

Please help, as I don't wanna lose any of my fish (I have a gorgeous blue male, that I hope, hope, hope, doesn't get ich)

Thank you,
Elisa

nbassis 04-12-2007 02:15 PM

Do not know much about guppies but i always use organicure. At least until i got a UV. Then no more ich. Wounder how those thing work. Anyway you prob do not want a UV on such a small tnak but organicure works great and wont mess up your filter.

jandpgault 04-12-2007 03:33 PM

ich...
 
What sort of symptoms do your guppies display? If your fish has small white specks on its body similar to salt granules, then it probably is ich. It was likely caused by poor water quality.

I would get your water parameters under control first. Partial water changes will help. Make sure that you are treating your water that you add to your tank with Stress Coat or something similar. You need to get your nitrites to 0. Stress zyme will help speed the development of the biological filter. It's normal to have some level of nitrates in your tank. Usually anything under 40 ppm is acceptable. You also didn't mention what your PH was. What is that reading? Until you get your water parameters under control, your problems will not go away.

Then make sure it is really ich that your fish have. Ich treatment can be harsh on some fish. If it is a bad case of ich, then I would start treatment. There are several medications made specifically for ich.

jandpgault 04-12-2007 03:38 PM

Black Guppy...
 
Some guppies just have very strange colorations. What you described could just be her coloration. I have a male guppy with a patch similar to the one you mentioned on your black guppy. That is just how he is. I also have a female guppy that starts out with a silver head and then her body gradually gets darker and black and that is just how she is. Doesn't mean anything is wrong with your guppy. Just keep an eye on her and see if any new symtoms develop.

elisa 04-12-2007 03:52 PM

Re: ich...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jandpgault
What sort of symptoms do your guppies display? If your fish has small white specks on its body similar to salt granules, then it probably is ich. It was likely caused by poor water quality.

I would get your water parameters under control first. Partial water changes will help. Make sure that you are treating your water that you add to your tank with Stress Coat or something similar. You need to get your nitrites to 0. Stress zyme will help speed the development of the biological filter. It's normal to have some level of nitrates in your tank. Usually anything under 40 ppm is acceptable. You also didn't mention what your PH was. What is that reading? Until you get your water parameters under control, your problems will not go away.

Then make sure it is really ich that your fish have. Ich treatment can be harsh on some fish. If it is a bad case of ich, then I would start treatment. There are several medications made specifically for ich.

It really looks like that. This poor girl has white specks on her, like it snowed on her. And she was always fine before yesterday.
You're probably right about my water, it has been hard getting it right, but I think now with the proper filter I should be able to get my levels under control. And it must have been the water because there was no new fish introduction. I do use the stress coat, but I think i wll get something else tonight (either the stress zyme or the tetra aquasafe).
My PH is low I think the first reading on the strip (I think 6? or 6.5), it never goes above that.
But what if the water is still not right, can I treat the fish? can they die? How long does it take for them to die? I just have no idea how much time do I have. Can I wait until the water is better? Should I do just the salt for now? I just want to do the right thing.

I will ask at the store tonight, hopefully they'll know. I kinda have an idea of the medications out there now, let's see what they say.

Thank you for your help.

elisa 04-12-2007 03:54 PM

Re: Black Guppy...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jandpgault
Some guppies just have very strange colorations. What you described could just be her coloration. I have a male guppy with a patch similar to the one you mentioned on your black guppy. That is just how he is. I also have a female guppy that starts out with a silver head and then her body gradually gets darker and black and that is just how she is. Doesn't mean anything is wrong with your guppy. Just keep an eye on her and see if any new symtoms develop.

I don't know, you could be right. I hope you're right. But it looks like a sickness more than a skin pattern. It's just too different from the rest of her. I have to see if I can take her picture and upload it here. I will keep an eye on her. Thanks.

Lupin 04-12-2007 10:13 PM

Re: ich...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jandpgault
What sort of symptoms do your guppies display? If your fish has small white specks on its body similar to salt granules, then it probably is ich. It was likely caused by poor water quality.

Not poor water quality. Stress. The guppies appeared to have been stressed by dangerous levels of ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. A big water change is quite necessary here. 60-70% will do the trick. There are common misconceptions that ich is always present in all aquaria. Unless a person quarantines a new fish, ich is likely to be introduced in the tank.
Quote:

Then make sure it is really ich that your fish have. Ich treatment can be harsh on some fish. If it is a bad case of ich, then I would start treatment. There are several medications made specifically for ich.
I agree. I still would prefer salt and warm temperature. Adjust the heater to regulate temp at 28-30 degrees Celsius. Dissolve salt very well as the owner has clown loaches which are prone to being burned by grains of salt.
Quote:

Originally Posted by elisa
One more question: I have one female guppy that I recently bought that has me thinking... first of all her color is all weird (yeah I know I am stupid I didn't really check her at the store). She is very black from mid-body to the tail, so black that makes me think maybe she could be dyed. Are there natural "very black" guppies? I call her my goth guppy but now I am worried about her. Also she has along one side of her body like an albino patch. Basically there is a good sized spot with no color, like flesh color, different from the black tail, but also different from the rest of her color. What could it be? Could it be fungus? Or could it be normal? She looks ok otherwise (until now watch her catch ich), except I noticed that one of the clown loaches picks on her, and he has never picked on anyone else before. What could that mean?

Elisa, guppies are rarely dyed. They can be bred quite easily to produce several color variations. She appears normal to me unless you observed cottony patches which is indeed fungus. Furthermore, fungus is quite rare unless wounds are left untreated.
Quote:

My PH is low I think the first reading on the strip (I think 6? or 6.5), it never goes above that.
Try using crushed oyster shells to increase the pH or introduce limestones. Guppies do better in hard, alkaline waters.

elisa 04-13-2007 08:59 AM

Re: ich...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue
Quote:

Originally Posted by jandpgault
What sort of symptoms do your guppies display? If your fish has small white specks on its body similar to salt granules, then it probably is ich. It was likely caused by poor water quality.

Not poor water quality. Stress. The guppies appeared to have been stressed by dangerous levels of ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. A big water change is quite necessary here. 60-70% will do the trick. There are common misconceptions that ich is always present in all aquaria. Unless a person quarantines a new fish, ich is likely to be introduced in the tank.

Ok. I will do a big water change tonight.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue
Quote:

Originally Posted by jandpgault
Then make sure it is really ich that your fish have. Ich treatment can be harsh on some fish. If it is a bad case of ich, then I would start treatment. There are several medications made specifically for ich.

I agree. I still would prefer salt and warm temperature. Adjust the heater to regulate temp at 28-30 degrees Celsius. Dissolve salt very well as the owner has clown loaches which are prone to being burned by grains of salt.

That's what I'm doing, I'm raising the temperature and using the salt. The infected girl looks a bit better (not a lot of white specks), even if a bit pale. I've noticed another of my girls a bit paler, and I'm guessing when I get home tonight she will have some ich on her too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue
Quote:

Originally Posted by elisa
One more question: I have one female guppy that I recently bought that has me thinking... first of all her color is all weird (yeah I know I am stupid I didn't really check her at the store). She is very black from mid-body to the tail, so black that makes me think maybe she could be dyed. Are there natural "very black" guppies? I call her my goth guppy but now I am worried about her. Also she has along one side of her body like an albino patch. Basically there is a good sized spot with no color, like flesh color, different from the black tail, but also different from the rest of her color. What could it be? Could it be fungus? Or could it be normal? She looks ok otherwise (until now watch her catch ich), except I noticed that one of the clown loaches picks on her, and he has never picked on anyone else before. What could that mean?

Elisa, guppies are rarely dyed. They can be bred quite easily to produce several color variations. She appears normal to me unless you observed cottony patches which is indeed fungus. Furthermore, fungus is quite rare unless wounds are left untreated.

When I got home last night she was dead at the bottom of the tank. It definitely was some sort of illness. :( It wasn't just discoloration, you could tell it was not right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue
Quote:

Originally Posted by elisa
My PH is low I think the first reading on the strip (I think 6? or 6.5), it never goes above that.

Try using crushed oyster shells to increase the pH or introduce limestones. Guppies do better in hard, alkaline waters.

At the fish store yesterday the lady gave me PH something, basically to raise my PH to 7.0. I put it in the tank last night. I can look for oyster shells too.

I can't wait until I finally cycle this tank, it's almost feels like it will never happen.

Thank you for your help.

Lupin 04-13-2007 09:39 AM

Elisa, you'd better avoid the pH chemicals given to you by the lady. Once the effects wore off, pH tends to swing and can kill your fish more than the treatments can. If I were you, eye on the crushed oyster shells or use calcerous rocks.:) Limestones are often available in pet stores and garden centres.:)

Good luck and fingers crossed for you.:)

jandpgault 04-13-2007 10:14 AM

Re: ich...
 
True - poor water quality can lead to stress in fish, but Blue is right, ultimately it is the stress that can cause your fish to get sick.

Sorry to hear about your guppy. I have learned over the years of having fish that you have the right to be very picky when it comes to buying fish. There are even certain clerks I will not go to. I'd watch them as well to see how they handle the fish. I would not buy fish out of a tank if there are any dead, diseased, or even ill/odd looking fish. Watch the fish for a while in the tank before you buy them too. Look at all their colorations, behaviors, etc... to see if they are all similar or share characteristics with the other fish. Guppies can come in very vibrant and beautiful colors. The males are usually the more exotic looking ones.

Don't worry, we have all been there, you'll get the hang of all this. Pretty soon, you'll be able to spot and avoid the sick fish in the pet/fish stores :)

I have only had an outbreak of ich once back when I had semi-aggressive fish. I have never tried the salt/temperature method. It does sound much better than the chemical method. Let me know it turns out and good luck with your tank :D


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