Pandurini tetra?
 

Does anyone know anything about Pandurini tetra? Googling brings up very little. It seems they are Hyphessobrycon pandurini and come from Peru, but I can't find the usually available information like grown size, preferred pH, temperament and that type of thing. Thanks for any info.

According to the California Academy of Science ichhyological database and also Fishbase, there is to date no species that has been scientifically described/named as Hyphessobrycon pandurini. The former site is usually current to within a couple of weeks.

New fish are frequently given pseudo-scientific names by collectors, exporters, distributors. Common names also which of course are almost always useless. The beautiful Zebra Pleco for instance was originally seen in the literature as Pekolita zebra, but no ichthyologist ever so described it; when it was described by I think Isbrucker, it was Hypancistrus zebra and nothing else. These things happen.

Do you have any other info? If you do a search of Hyphessobrycon species, can you see any that look like this fish? [Don't suppose you can post a photo?] There are new species of characins being described monthly, and while I certainly don't see anywhere near all of them, I try to keep up, but have not spotted this name although I may not have taken much notice if it was back a few months. The Hyphessobrycon genus, along with Hemigrammus, now contain some 300+ species; these are sort of "catch-all" genera. Only in February this year (2010) Stanley Weitzman and some colleagues published a study that has removed all of the species that were in the Subfamily Tetragonopterinae (except those in the true genus Tetragonopterus) and placed them in the "Hemigrammus clade" in the family Characidae pending further study which may take years to sort out.

Byron.

Thanks Byron.

Sorry for the delay in replying - I typed all of this out ages ago, but the site went down and I couldn't post. I thought that I had posted it and only just discovered that I hadn't when I was looking for something else.

I couldn't really find much info by googling. One discussion thread that a search pops up says that other names "floating around" are "Tetra Junior" (although the poster said that that wasn't the same as what they had) and "Soyosoyo Tetra". Another says that "Hyphessobrycon tino" is being used. Others mention "Hemigrammus sp. pandurini" and "Hyphessobrycon sp."junior".

The "junior tetra" is mentioned here.http://www.mtfb.com/mikepage.htm
and a photo is posted here http://www.mtfb.com/JuniorW.jpg The photo in the second link certainly looks similar to the fish they have in my local shop, but they are calling them pandurini tetra in the shop so I don't know if they are exactly the same, or something slightly different.

Hyphessobrycon sp. "Junior" has a bit more info by comparison. Two photos attached. This is one beautiful tetra.

If you can read Czech, here's a site with this fish:
http://rybicky.net/atlasryb/tetra_sp_junior
Or in German, Mimbon Aquarium has this:
http://www.mimbon.de/archives/47

The Hyphessobrycon sp. means the fish is not yet scientifically described and named, but is assumed to possibly be a Hyphessobrycon. However, as I noted previously, this is a large catch-all genus, along with the closely related Hemigrammus [the only difference between fish in these two genera is the caudal fin, it is scaled in Hemigrammus but not in Hyphessobrycon]. However, the "Hemigrammus clade" as Weitzman et.al. have now determined it to be contains "similar" fish that may eventually be classified in other genera. I did find one reference for this "Junior Tetra" as Moenkhausia sp., which is certainly one possibility.

All sites agree this fish occurs in Peru, presumably the Peruvian Amazon basin. That means soft, very soft water, and slightly acidic. It will likely not attain this beautiful colouration in hard water, most very soft water origin characins won't. One reference I tracked down was by Karel Zahradka, a Czech authority on characins. It only referenced a photo as this species, un-described; apparently it was first exported in 2004.

Byron.

Thanks Byron. I can't read Czech, but could struggle through the German.

Yes, they are beautiful. The colours in the aquarium shop are very nice, even if they aren't at their absolute best. I thought that the females with the yellow fins were particularly nice.

How do you think they'd go in my new tank? Worth a try?

If not these, I'm considering gold flame tetras for my second group of tetras. From what I've read, they seem peaceful and would fit in with dwarf neon rainbows, my black neons and cories. Is there anything I've overlooked that would make them a poor choice?

I would grab a group of 7+ of these tetra if I had the chance. I see no reason to expect any difference in behaviour, requirements, etc. for these as the other similar characins such as Hemigrammus pulcher or Hemigrammus ocellifer, both of which are in the profiles. In fact, when I first saw these photos, I thought how similar this fish is to H. pulcher of which I have a group of 10 in my 115g. Lovely fish. As this species is discernable male/female, get an even group, I would go for 10 or 8 minimum, half male/female.

Thanks. The only concern I have in getting something a bit different is replacing them if/when they die and the shop no longer keeps them as a regular stock item and/or the suppliers stop supplying them. If you can't get more, they'll lose the benefit of having a school as they die and the numbers dwindle.

I'll certainly go and have another look at them. They were very nice.

Make sure they don't die.;-) They will age of course. I have a couple characins that I cannot replace except by luck. Hyphessobrycon metae, I bought a group of 7 in late 2008 and they are doing fine in my 90g, but it was the only time I have ever seen them. And I have a group of 4 of a probable Hyphessobrycon species not yet described in my 115g. I had five also acquired in late 2008, one died a few months later, the 4 are doing well. And a group of 4 pencilfish, I think Nannostomus digramus, that I spotted as a by-catch in a tank of wild-caught rummynose. These have never been available locally before, may never be again for all I know; but they might as well be happy in my tank as elsewhere.

:lol: That'd be the plan, but eventually they are going to die, even if they live out their full lifespan. I suppose one thing to do would be to get a larger group so that if/when you lose some, they've still got a group - ie go for 10 rather than 6 or 8.

Yes, whenever I buy say 7, one often dies within a few weeks. I now go above what I really want.