Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources

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-   -   ICH- two weeks of treatment, its still hear and 20 dead fish (http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/tropical-fish-diseases/ich-two-weeks-treatment-its-still-4577/)

lmeijer 03-27-2007 10:29 PM

ICH- two weeks of treatment, its still hear and 20 dead fish
 
Okay so I treated my 65 gallon planted tank for ich for two weeks with RID ICH and no change.

I have lost 20 fish.

Mostly tetras and cherry barbs but I also lost a pleco, kuhli loach and SAE. Only the tetras, rummy nose tetras,cherry barbs and SAE's have it (my angels, danios, black skirt tetras, kuhlis, cories and chinese algae eaters don't have it).

Now I have treated for three days with Quick Cure and nothing, it is not going away.

I have the temp raised to 86 and I added salt per someone's suggestions. (I removed my frogs).

Please any suggestions, I am running out of fish.

Thanks.

musho3210 03-27-2007 10:31 PM

what are the water params, salt is meant to be the first treatment, then medication, if neither of them work move on to UVS

lmeijer 03-27-2007 10:35 PM

The tank was an upgrade and I think it cycled even though I used my old stuff. Now the levels are Nitrate 5.0, Nitrite 0, Ammonia o, ph 6.6 and phosphate 0.

I raised the temp for 5 days, then added salt, then rid ich and now quick cure (after a water change). It is not falling off the fish and they keep dying.

Sorry this is new to me ---what is UVS?

musho3210 03-27-2007 11:15 PM

ultra violet sterilizer, its a high powered filter that uses a UV light which kills bacteria, protozoa, parasites and free swimming algae spores, you can say it kills everything living. There ok for short term use but long term is bad, costs about 100 dollars first hand 50 dollars second hand, look around you should be able to find one. You still need to work it for the 2 week period to successfully kill the ich, having it working for maybe 3 weeks isnt that bad to play it save but stop after that.

Also stop mixing medications together, run some activated carbon, then use only 1 medication or salt treatment or UVS

lmeijer 03-27-2007 11:25 PM

I didn't mix the meds I used the first, it didnt work, did a water change and used the second. Now I am only using quick cure

Will that sterilization thing kill my good bacteria, I don't want to cycle again and honestly I only have 6 fish left that have the ich, all the others died and the rest don't have it.

musho3210 03-28-2007 04:36 PM

no the beneficial bacteria lives on surfaces there-for wont go through the UVS.

Do you have chemical filtration in the filter while you are medicating?

bettababy 03-28-2007 06:20 PM

The UVS would be the most sure fire way to get rid of the problem, and no, it won't harm your good bacteria culture.
Mush, is there a reason you believe it not a good thing to run the UVS all the time other than the expense of running it? Honestly, it won't hurt anything to run it all the time, and is a good preventive for these kinds of problems. They are designed to be run all the time.
As mush has said, be sure to remove carbon while medicating, and be careful not to mix meds unless you know it is safe. Not all meds can be mixed together.
Can you tell me what kind of fish you lost thus far? Some of the ick medications are not safe for all kinds of fish, and could be a contributing factor in what fish have already died. How many days have you been using the quick cure? What is the temp in the tank?
One other question for you... the pH in the tank is 6.6, is it also 6.6 coming from the tap?

musho3210 03-28-2007 06:30 PM

Full term running gets rid of all bad things which is bad for the fish as it then has a low immunity. You may use humans as an example, our immune system has our secret weapon, our memory cells (which is a type of white blood cell) which memorize how to defeat a disease we have had, or at least fight it in a better way, but these memory cells only record the diseases that we already have so if we havent had it before, the memory cells wont defeat it and it is left off for the other white blood cells to fight it. If the white blood cells defeat it, one of the white blood cells becomes a memory cell and memorizes how to defeat it. The same principle works in vaccinations, all vaccinations inject a tiny bit of the disease that it is meant to vaccinate, then the immune system easily defeats it since it is at such a small quantity, then our memory cells record and voila, we have an immunity to that disease (of course problems can still happen if your immune system isnt strong enough to defeat the small dose and it spreads, happens with the polio vaccination so parents must sign a contract to swear that they wont sue if the child receives polio).

The same thing goes with fish, there immune system records the disease so it wont happen again unless the disease cell mutates and the memory cell isnt able to fight off the same disease since it is viewed as a different one (thats why we can catch so many common colds and flus in our lifetime since the disease constantly mutates and our memory cells aren't made to fight these ones). So if the fish is able to fight off small amounts of disease with there own immune system, it all ends up being good. Also there immune system is in work all the time since there are always diseases in the tank. With the UVS in work there will be no diseases in the tank and the fishes immune system isnt working anymore. Then maybe the UVS breaks down and the diseases are back, the fish wont have any memory cells since there never were diseases in the first place and they are more susceptible to death.

Sorry if you didnt understand this, i learned most of this in science class and off fish websites, it took two full periods of science class for our teacher to fully explain it to us, and i tried to sum it up the best way i could

lmeijer 03-29-2007 11:52 AM

Thanks, I will look into that.

No chemical filtration

fish_4_all 03-29-2007 11:17 PM

The only ones I can suggest now are Coppersafe which got rid of my problem in 6 days and using Maracyn I and/or II. I know nothing on the UV sterilizer so I can't say there. I think 88F is the prefered temp if I remember right.

The other thing is it might not be Ich but might be velvet which sometimes requires different medications or something else. Can you describe it in as best of detail as you can so we can make sure it is ich and not something else? Not trying to question your diagnosis skills I just want to make sure. A picture would be even better if possible.


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