Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources

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-   -   Violet Goby, brackish or fresh, and goldies? (http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/beginner-freshwater-aquarium/violet-goby-brackish-fresh-goldies-40161/)

Castro235 03-30-2010 03:35 PM

Violet Goby, brackish or fresh, and goldies?
 
Hey guys, I'm back in the market now that I'm in the working class again, and I still have my three survivors goldfish (had 6, one attacked and killed two, and he got rehomed for it, leaving me with the three)

They are still very small, had them only about 3-4 weeks, but they are getting the move now from their 10 gallon, to at the very least a 29 gallon, but I'm looking more into a 40 gallon or larger.

I've been poking around the local fish stores, and have found one place that sells "dragon eels" but after talking to their aquarium guy he told me they are violet gobies and they don't usually get over a foot, doing some digging online it looks like they only get to be about 15 inches in captivity so that isn't too far off.


At the fish store, they have them in fresh filtered room temperature water, which would be ideal since it's what my goldfish will be in, but doing some looking online it seems as though they can only live a short span of a few years in freshwater, I've read mixed results of proper longterm acclimation and breeding leading to the ability to do fine in fresh, but it seems that brackish is better for them to strive.

doing even more digging I have also seen mixed results, some saying that goldfish do very well in brackish water, which I haven't heard, and have also read that its impossible, which leaves me with no good stance on it.


If this were all possible to do having them together, I would want to get a tank big enough to suit all of them of course, and I would be doing sand for substrate, along with probably several sponge filters, since I have heard of eels/gobies being escape artists so I would want a cover, and some pvc piping and slate for caves to keep the goby happy.

So after all of this, my questions end up,

IF they can live well in the same waters, would 55 gallons be too small for two comets, one common, and one violet goby?

Would a violet goby do fine in freshwater?

Would goldfish do fine in brackish water?

And is there any more to this story that I'm completely missing perhaps?

Thanks for any help, I really just don't want to end up with another unforeseen project like when the store originally sold me 6 goldfish and a 1 gallon tank!

iamntbatman 03-31-2010 02:39 AM

Not a good mix, if you ask me. The goby really does do better in brackish water, which the goldfish shouldn't be in. The goby also needs to be at much higher temperatures than the goldfish will appreciate. Finally, they can be picky, slow eaters, sometimes needing frozen or live foods, which would make them very difficult to feed with hungry goldfish in the tank.

Luckily, basically all of your problems are solved with the weather (or dojo, depending on who you ask) loach. These are coldwater fish that can be kept singly and make pretty good tankmates for goldfish. They look pretty similar to the dragon gobies, which is why I suggest them.

Castro235 03-31-2010 07:04 AM

Yea, a little more research into it kind of makes it seem like I'll just end up with a golden dojo loach or someother variant, any suggestions on whether a 40 gallon would be too small for 3 goldfish and 1 or more weather loaches?

I know the goldfish should have 40 gallons just to themselves, but I don't know how adding bottomfeeders affects the ratio since they stay in a seperate area. I only plan on going as big as a 55 if I need to for the goldfish and one to several of the dojo loaches, but I'm not sure if a 55 would even be enough for the three goldfish and one loach.

Any thoughts?

iamntbatman 04-01-2010 04:11 AM

Hmm, remind me, are these fancy goldies or commons? If they're fancy, I think the three in a 75g would be good. You could probably have a couple of loaches in there as well. A 55g would be really pushing it (a 55g is only about a foot wide front-to-back). A 40g breeder is wider but not as long or tall. I think you'll need more room, ultimately. If they're common goldfish, you'd need a bigger tank still.

Castro235 05-05-2010 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamntbatman (Post 354908)
Hmm, remind me, are these fancy goldies or commons? If they're fancy, I think the three in a 75g would be good. You could probably have a couple of loaches in there as well. A 55g would be really pushing it (a 55g is only about a foot wide front-to-back). A 40g breeder is wider but not as long or tall. I think you'll need more room, ultimately. If they're common goldfish, you'd need a bigger tank still.

Know I'm bringing this back after about a month, but I have the stuff now and set up about ready to start being filled.


Ended up with a 55 gallon tank, which I built a small sump tank for, ideally I'll end up with a bigger tank than the 55 in a year or so, but for now it's what they will be in.


I tend to not trust most local fish stores, but I happened upon one about 45 minutes away, they've been in business for I think about 40 years, they specialize in koi and goldfish, although they do have all sorts of tropical fish inside.

They do have a 55 gallon tank inside, with three fantails, and two dragon gobys, I asked them about them, and they say the gobies have been raised/bred in captivity in freshwater for a long time, and they have never had problems with them in with the goldfish.

The gobies did not appear to have a slime on them, or look unhealthy, and I only know that the water was not brackish or salt, but I'm not sure the temperature they have it at.


Does it really seem as though it's still not a good chance of keeping one with success in the low temperature(68-71) freshwater?


I really love the look of them, and it just seems like it would be a pretty good match since it's coming from an actually reputable store, owned by the same two people for several decades, and specialize in goldfish, as opposed to a petco or walmart.



Any help would be great!
Thanks

(And they are I believe* one comet and two commons, all still under 4", but I seem to have gathered that they will grow quite quickly once they're in the 55, which hopefully they won't be in for more than, if at all, a years time)

Byron 05-05-2010 01:08 PM

We can't all know everything obviously, but the advantage of a forum for exchange of information is that when one of us makes a comment, many others see it and if incorrect they will be sure to jump in. I would trust what iamntbatman and others on here say to anything a store owner might say--after all, he is in business, we are not.

That said, I will bow out as I am not an expert on goldfish or gobies, though my research confirms what iamntbatman has previously recommended.

Byron.

Castro235 05-05-2010 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron (Post 377747)
We can't all know everything obviously, but the advantage of a forum for exchange of information is that when one of us makes a comment, many others see it and if incorrect they will be sure to jump in. I would trust what iamntbatman and others on here say to anything a store owner might say--after all, he is in business, we are not.

That said, I will bow out as I am not an expert on goldfish or gobies, though my research confirms what iamntbatman has previously recommended.

Byron.

I don't so much value either opinion more than the other, as I would prefer to get multiple opinions than It will work, and it won't work.

I was hoping to find someone who had firsthand experience keeping dragon gobies successfully in freshwater(if there is anyone) as I have seen some cases of them being acclimated over a long time to be healthy in purely freshwater setups.

I try to put no more faith in the store than I can directly see, and with the gobies appearing healthy in the conditions they are in(no red sores or slime) for the past several weeks I have been stopping in, it would seem as though they would be healthy in the fresh.

But I also don't know if perhaps even in fresh they have a massively decreased lifespan, or some other underlying issues, so I'd really like to find someone who has kept them in the conditions successfully, rather than only value the input of those who have not had success.

Kind of how many many people told me I could have certain cats with the goldfish just fine, but I am not doing so from the few people who have had fatalities due to the cats.

iamntbatman 05-06-2010 04:03 AM

Well, something to consider is that fish that live in low-end brackish water tend to also do well (or at least reasonably well, anyway) in very hard fresh water. Goldfish prefer hard water as it is so might well adapt to very hard water, reaching some sort of compromise with the gobies. That said, I try to shy away from compromise when it comes to fish care when it's something of a stretch.

Something else to consider is that fancy goldfish do better at higher temperatures than non-fancies; for that reason fancies would fare better at the tropical temperatures the gobies require. Finally, fancies are also more "bumbling" than non-fancies. They're slow movers and not as aggressive feeders as their non-fancy counterparts, which means that the slow-eating, picky gobies would have a better time getting food in a tank full of fancy goldfish than fast-swimming, big-eating non-fancy goldies.

Castro235 05-06-2010 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamntbatman (Post 378346)
Well, something to consider is that fish that live in low-end brackish water tend to also do well (or at least reasonably well, anyway) in very hard fresh water. Goldfish prefer hard water as it is so might well adapt to very hard water, reaching some sort of compromise with the gobies. That said, I try to shy away from compromise when it comes to fish care when it's something of a stretch.

Something else to consider is that fancy goldfish do better at higher temperatures than non-fancies; for that reason fancies would fare better at the tropical temperatures the gobies require. Finally, fancies are also more "bumbling" than non-fancies. They're slow movers and not as aggressive feeders as their non-fancy counterparts, which means that the slow-eating, picky gobies would have a better time getting food in a tank full of fancy goldfish than fast-swimming, big-eating non-fancy goldies.



That would make a bit of sense then, since they were in with fantails it might be safe to assume they were at a higher temperature than my comet/commons need, and they would be less likely to get their share of food as well, if kept with my fish as well.

Thanks for the response, thats alot easier to help with the decision, so I guess I'll just wait until I get a bigger tank, and I can use this 55 for a light brackish and see what will do well with gobies when the time comes.


If only I had more money lol, someone right near me on craigslist has a 75 gallon with stand hood light everything and anything for 200 >.<


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