Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources

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-   -   is Dwarf Sag a great oxygenator? or is it toxic gas? (http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/beginner-planted-aquarium/dwarf-sag-great-oxygenator-toxic-gas-38872/)

redchigh 03-09-2010 11:28 AM

is Dwarf Sag a great oxygenator? or is it toxic gas?
 
I put the 23W cool white bulb over my 5G again...
(the red plants turned red again within an hour. :))

I know people have seen oxygen bubbles rising from plants with CO2 supplementation, but I see a stream of bubbles coming up from my dwarf sag.
It's rising from the crown, and not from any other plants, not even the "oxygenators" like anacharis and vallis.

Is it even possible, or is it sewage gasses and I need to poke the substrate some more? It's so close to the plant I guess I'll have to rip it up to poke the soil under it and then plant it back. :/


I turned the lights off (the tank is in a sunny window) and in a few minutes, the bubbles stopped... When I turned it back on it took a few seconds to start back up again.

To me, that would prove that it's oxygen from photosynthesis...
Also, the fish are swimming through and around the tiny stream of bubbles.
They wouldn't do that if it was toxic gas would they?


Just wanted to make sure I'm not crazy...

stephanieleah 03-09-2010 04:45 PM

Without any scientific knowledge to back it up, I just think the whole thing from the leaves turning back to red and the bubbles stopping and going according to the light...is a beautiful picture of how sensitive and responsive our aquatic systems can be. I would guess that yes, either pearling but more inclined to think that maybe it's aerobic reactions happening in the substrate from the roots of the plants that are photosynthesizing. I've seen plants pearl but mostly from the leaves, but hey I am no expert there.

Anyway, I just love the story here : )

redchigh 03-09-2010 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephanieleah (Post 341208)
Without any scientific knowledge to back it up, I just think the whole thing from the leaves turning back to red and the bubbles stopping and going according to the light...is a beautiful picture of how sensitive and responsive our aquatic systems can be. I would guess that yes, either pearling but more inclined to think that maybe it's aerobic reactions happening in the substrate from the roots of the plants that are photosynthesizing. I've seen plants pearl but mostly from the leaves, but hey I am no expert there.

Anyway, I just love the story here : )

The odd thing is that it's the dwarf sag only out of all the plants.
Overall, the plants in the 5G don't seem to be doing to hot.

I may move the dwarf sag to my 10G guppy tank in a couple days... that way only "extra" plants will be in the 5G.

Also, when I poke the substrate with a stick bubbles come up. Is that normal?

I talked to mary again at sweet aquatics. next week she's going to send me a TON of MTS, a banana plant and 2 dwarf baby tears for $12 shipped.

Austin 03-10-2010 12:06 PM

I don't think it's normal for bubbles to come up when you poke the substrate...

also, sorry, but I have to ask... WHATS MTS??? I've seen it often and I have no clue what the heck it is. And it's bother me... :/

Byron 03-10-2010 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Austin (Post 341745)
I don't think it's normal for bubbles to come up when you poke the substrate...

also, sorry, but I have to ask... WHATS MTS??? I've seen it often and I have no clue what the heck it is. And it's bother me... :/

Malaysian Trumpet Snails, sometimes called Malaysian Livebearing Snails because they bear live young, they do not lay eggs as most other snails. They are also sometimes called Horn of Plenty Snails because they are long and cylindrical like a horn of plenty. They have a habit of burrowing through the substrate, keeping it fresh and clean for the bacteria. They also do very well in soft acidic water tanks, unlike most other snails that require more calcium and thus fare better in basic, harder water.

redchigh 03-10-2010 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Austin (Post 341745)
I don't think it's normal for bubbles to come up when you poke the substrate...

also, sorry, but I have to ask... WHATS MTS??? I've seen it often and I have no clue what the heck it is. And it's bother me... :/

MTS= Malaysian Trumpet Snails ie Malaysian Livebearing Snails.

They are cool little snails that don't eat plants and tunnel through the substrate.
basically the earthworms of the aquarium.

Back on topic...
So should I break the tank down in order to take the soil out?
I'm afraid the bubbles could be the "bad" bubbles... sewage gas- hydrogen whatever. (Maybe I'll light a match- if it goes up like the hindenburg I'll know it's hydrogen...)

Austin 03-10-2010 02:42 PM

Ahh, ok, sounds cool! :D lol. But if they do well in soft acidic tank, mine's not for them anyways. ;[


Not that I know much about what your asking, but do you have really compact substrate? I know that if it's too compact or the substrate pieces are too small they can cause air pockets to form and this allows bad bacteria to survive off the gases I think... I can't remember WHAT happens after that... I'd probably just poke in the soil and make the bubbles come up... I doubt it's anything too bad. Can't exactly remember where I read it and I can't remember exactly what I read lol.

Byron 03-10-2010 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Austin (Post 341807)
Ahh, ok, sounds cool! :D lol. But if they do well in soft acidic tank, mine's not for them anyways. ;[


Not that I know much about what your asking, but do you have really compact substrate? I know that if it's too compact or the substrate pieces are too small they can cause air pockets to form and this allows bad bacteria to survive off the gases I think... I can't remember WHAT happens after that... I'd probably just poke in the soil and make the bubbles come up... I doubt it's anything too bad. Can't exactly remember where I read it and I can't remember exactly what I read lol.

Malaysian snails will do well in any tank; I only mentioned the soft acidic water because most snails will not last in soft water, these will. But all snails do well (too well in some minds) in hard water because they need calcium for their shells or they cannot grow. MTS are probably the best snail for any aquarium, due to their burrowing habit.

Byron 03-10-2010 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redchigh (Post 341795)
MTS= Malaysian Trumpet Snails ie Malaysian Livebearing Snails.

They are cool little snails that don't eat plants and tunnel through the substrate.
basically the earthworms of the aquarium.

Back on topic...
So should I break the tank down in order to take the soil out?
I'm afraid the bubbles could be the "bad" bubbles... sewage gas- hydrogen whatever. (Maybe I'll light a match- if it goes up like the hindenburg I'll know it's hydrogen...)

I don't think such drastic action is necessary. This is a fairly recent setup, is it not? Assuming it is, it is highly unlikely that you have anerobic conditions so bad as to cause hydrogen sulphides. Bubbles from the substrate are frequently air trapped when you filled the tank, or from aerobic activity as mentioned below.

Soil substrates have issues and take time to settle. Diana Walstad is an advocate of soil substrates (I am not, though I recognize they work well for those who want to go down that road) and you should have a read of her articles, some are online. In the November 2009 TFH she had an article on this, and mentions a couple of things. One, soils take a few months to settle, during which there can be several problems; patience is required to work this out and allow the tank to establish itself. Two, substrate bubbling is usually the release of CO2 from the breakdown of organic material in the soil (if it was good soil) by bacteria. This is one of the reasons for using soil, the release of CO2 for the plants. The type of soil used also affects things. You might want to track down her articles, they are very good for those into this method.

redchigh 03-13-2010 01:11 PM

I ended up breaking it down anyway, because my yard soil was WAY too compacted. I set it up again with organic potting soil (like she reccomends) and it's way better-
Then I reach into the tank I can tell the soil substrate is spongy, and not a brick like it was.
The plants are already putting on more growth in the two days than they were in the week it was set up previously.


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