Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources

Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources (http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/)
-   Beginner Planted Aquarium (http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/beginner-planted-aquarium/)
-   -   air powered sponge filter and plants (http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/beginner-planted-aquarium/air-powered-sponge-filter-plants-38410/)

stephanieleah 03-02-2010 10:40 AM

air powered sponge filter and plants
 
another CO2 question

i'm running a sponge filter with air in a small 10 gallon with lots of plants. it just seems to me that all that air and bubbles would create a lot of gaseous exchange in the water...should i add "extra" excel to this tank? the tank has only plants, no co2 producing creatures.

Angel079 03-02-2010 01:02 PM

This issue actually also came up in the "water change or not" thread.
My idea now is to get a Double timer if you well so when lights are on Sponge is off and vise versa as there's really no need to runt he sponge 24/7.
Adding Excel I would question first what stock you have in the tank what plants and possibly what current issues you may be facing with your plants to come to that idea?

LMychajluk 03-02-2010 01:27 PM

Angel, I saw your other thread, and meant to post this there, but didn't get the chance. Slightly OT, but regarding the timers:

Some of the single timers have day/night plugs. I.e.:
http://www.zilla-rules.com/products/...wer-center.htm

The one above has 2 'day' plugs (on when 'night' plugs are off), 2 'night' plugs (on when 'day' plugs are off), and 4 constant on plugs. If you just want some stuff on when the other stuff is off, these are a bit cheaper than the ones with dual timers and will still get the job done. There's a digital version of the one above as well.

This is the one I use:
http://www.zilla-rules.com/products/...wer-center.htm

It's a dual timer, w/ 2 'day' plugs (on when 'night' plugs are off), 2 'night' plugs (on when 'day' plugs are off), 1 full-time plug, and 3 plug that the 2nd timer controls. More flexible than the single, but more expensive, too (I paid $40 at PetSmart). I don't use the 'night' plugs, but have my lights and an aerator on slightly different schedules. Maybe someday I may add some moonglow LEDs, and these could then be plugged into the 'night' plugs for when the main lights are off.

Note that the Zilla timers seem to be identical to the CoralLife timers, but sold in the reptile/terranium section of the pet stores, so when comparing prices, check both...

Byron 03-02-2010 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephanieleah (Post 336085)
another CO2 question

i'm running a sponge filter with air in a small 10 gallon with lots of plants. it just seems to me that all that air and bubbles would create a lot of gaseous exchange in the water...should i add "extra" excel to this tank? the tank has only plants, no co2 producing creatures.

I would question if it is really as significant as you indicate. Most sponge filters should not produce so many bubbles that they are detrimental to the system, and if they do, perhaps it can be regulated somehow. If it is attached to an air pump, a valve can be used to reduce the air flow.

stephanieleah 03-02-2010 04:21 PM

@Angel like I said there are no fish or anything just plants...and it's hard to tell if the Excel is working or not because all of the plants are trimmings and newly transplanted into the tank, which is also a brand new set up of about 1.5 weeks

@ Byron I can actually hear the pump sputtering out water but it isn't producing bubbles in the tank, just in the filter tube. I wonder if I shouldn't just make sure the whole thing is submerged to ensure the surface disturbance is kept to a minimal

oh yeah, and i turn it off at night

beetlebz 03-03-2010 06:05 PM

with no fish wouldnt it be beneficial to run air in a planted tank? im just thinking out loud i suppose. Im changing out my air powered sponge filter for an aquaclear hob, but I have my tank heavily stocked. with no in-tank source of co2 i would think an air powered sponge filter would be ideal. ok ill go away now :)

Byron 03-03-2010 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beetlebz (Post 337091)
with no fish wouldnt it be beneficial to run air in a planted tank? im just thinking out loud i suppose. Im changing out my air powered sponge filter for an aquaclear hob, but I have my tank heavily stocked. with no in-tank source of co2 i would think an air powered sponge filter would be ideal. ok ill go away now :)

I'm a bit puzzled, but also somewhat concerned. First, the reason for minimal water movement and surface disturbance (as from filters, airstones, whatever) is to keep CO2 in the water for the plants, rather than driving it off before they can assimilate it. This is applicable with or without fish, as it is the plants that need it, at least during daylight; at night it makes no difference to the plants.

That was my puzzlement; my concern is why you are removing a sponge filter and replacing it with a HOB. I assume this is a planted tank, and if so, this is not a good idea, and will be detrimental for the plants and the fish. The plants are doing far more filtering of the water than any filter could ever match, and the sponge filter is ideal in a planted tank because it creates minimal water movement which benefits both plants and forest fish. Before I go any further, perhaps you could explain the reasoning in case I'm missing something.

Byron.

Angel079 03-03-2010 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron (Post 337164)
I'm a bit puzzled, but also somewhat concerned. First, the reason for minimal water movement and surface disturbance (as from filters, airstones, whatever) is to keep CO2 in the water for the plants, rather than driving it off before they can assimilate it. This is applicable with or without fish, as it is the plants that need it, at least during daylight; at night it makes no difference to the plants.

That was my puzzlement; my concern is why you are removing a sponge filter and replacing it with a HOB. I assume this is a planted tank, and if so, this is not a good idea, and will be detrimental for the plants and the fish. The plants are doing far more filtering of the water than any filter could ever match, and the sponge filter is ideal in a planted tank because it creates minimal water movement which benefits both plants and forest fish. Before I go any further, perhaps you could explain the reasoning in case I'm missing something.

Byron.

He's actually made a post about it here http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/a...upgrade-38527/ IMO as I had posted there I'd also cycle the tank with the sponge and not add a HOB for the given reasons and also explained how I done this many times over few small new set ups over the yrs and never had a issue cycling with sponge filters.....:|

stephanieleah 03-03-2010 10:13 PM

so.....

would you recommend taking out my hob and putting in a sponge in my 29 gallon planted??? i don't think the hob does very much by way of mechanical filtration considering how filthy the pad is every week...at least with a spong, the shrimp could help decompose everything more quickly. and biological filtration is not at all a concern for me with all the plants.

Angel079 03-03-2010 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephanieleah (Post 337272)
so.....

would you recommend taking out my hob and putting in a sponge in my 29 gallon planted??? i don't think the hob does very much by way of mechanical filtration considering how filthy the pad is every week...at least with a spong, the shrimp could help decompose everything more quickly. and biological filtration is not at all a concern for me with all the plants.

Was it my tank I would. I pers believe/ my experience you can do more harm then good with a HOB over a planted and you could simply aviod that and help the plants thrive better with a sponge.


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