Just a FWIW, to clear up any misconceptions, and to do the in the advanced section I thought I would explain "my" cycling methods.
There had been posts here that I do not cycle my tanks. And that is simply incorrrect.
What I do is use plant life (FW plants, marine algae) to consume the initial ammonia produced while the aerobic bacteria build up. The bacteria will still build up taking more and more ammonia from the plant life untill that life finally starts consuming nitrates for nitrogen.
So the system is still going through a aerobic bacteria cycle.
But what is different is the initial ammonia and nitrIte spikes are short lived and very small if noticable at. But there can be an initial nitrate spike.
So my tanks do in fact cycle.
They just don't "spike".
And later the tank will again "cycle" should something go bump in the night like a fish death, over feeding and so on. Instead of ammonia "spikes" the plant life steps up to prevent the "spikes" and return the system to more normal operation. But that does not mean the tank does not cycle, it just doesn't spike.
Here is an example. To me this tank obviouly is going through "cycles" but not "spikes".
my . 02http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/r...n/fwleiden.jpg
If your tank "spiking" means you cycle your tank then I guess I don't have cycled tanks . Since none of my current tanks ever have spiked since I cloned my bb colonies .
What are you using the same chart for ? It only shows us you had a tiny single fish in a 20g a decade ago . Not sure what else I can pull from that chart .
You've bypassed a cycle really .. And if done right it would work fine .
There's nothing wrong with doing a planted tank and choosing not to learn about how the cycle works . I don't know why you insist on shoving this down the throats of newbies who are here to actually learn ..
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If we've gotten the wrong idea about your methods it's because we've been left to make guesses and assumptions due to your lack of cooperation in addressing concerns that are raised time and time again, everywhere you share this. Posting the same chart that everyone has seen a dozen times, yet again, is just another example of this stonewalling.
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The example tank had 60 fish from the originals 6 months later. that population was stable for 5 years.
The tank also supported 5 silver hachetfish for years. they are supposed to require a ph of 7 or less.
Imho the real issue is not my lack of addressing concerns but rather the rejection of my answers by people who have never used these techniques. especially the no chemicals nor water changes.
Along with the almost total rejection of my comon sense mathmetical analysis.
Still i do cycle my tanks, have done so in many cites including chloimins cites, with no fish losses, on tanks that had heavy bioloads for years and years.
Bob is obviously experienced and intelligent, and he seems to genuinely belive in his method. I'm sure it works for him. I have a 29 gal with hood empty in my basement, and I would be interested in trying the method.
If the forum would be interested, I can set up as soon as I can get supplies; about a week of so.(???????)
Bob: if you would kindly explain the start-up procedures I would be glad to report the parameters of the procces. I will be completely objective and only report numbers and direct observation, not theory
As I currently understand it I will need:
No special lights ( have standard flourescent tube)
Thanks, I love experiments!
Anything else i say would would spoil the experiment.
Btw that's the attitude.
You go guy/gal
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Yeah.. Skylight. He listed all that stuff in his thread. Go for it !
Bob, I don't reject that this can be done . I reject that this is appropriate to give out disguised as advice. It's not ideal for a fishes health .. It's extremely lazy fish keeping and not what we endorse here. That's a good portion of the rejection you meet. Had I as a newbie many many moons ago been given such advice and I followed it.. I'd be very disappointed with this hobby.. And likely would have eventually stopped keeping fish. I don't want to see anyone unknowingly being steered into this .
If someone comes here for advice then it's best to give them the best possible chances at success . If later down the road they decide to slack off and not keep up proper tank maintenance then that'll be on them! I'll not be responsible for this .. I know there is a good bit of "overdoing " things with tank maintenance flying around .. But it's best to teach everything then let people figure out what they need to do and what they don't with time and their own desires for their tanks .
Not everyone wants a planted tank covered in algae with fast growing plants and livebearers . Can you start *if nothing else * paying attention to what fish people are keeping before aggressively pushing your method? I don't have the slightest interest in keeping livebearers .. Is it hard to realize that some other people might feel like this? I love plants .. But not everyone does ..
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The issue isn't now, nor has it ever been, a matter of whether or not it CAN work.
hundreds of people have done tanks of one way or another that involve zero water changes.
hundreds of people have done things for different mixes of substrate for exceptional plant growth.
all it shows is how flexible and tolerable everything is to a vast range of differences and still make a tank fish can survive in.
i've got similar, and there's problems.
as i continue looking into self-sustaining, i do not know if there will ever be a solution to some of those problems.
a living water softener ?, ... is there such a plant ? ... or anything ?
one of a half-dozen issues to deal with that zero-water changes creates
In my opinion rather than do a bunch of guess work and make things complicated I'll just change water. In nature many of these fish live in rivers and the water is constantly being changes.
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