Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources

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koiholder2010 01-08-2010 02:09 PM

hey guys
hi im ryan im from south charlotte nc ive been into fish keeping for about two years now and really enjoy the hobby. in my current tank i have 3 koi one butterfly and two asaki standard fin koi as well as 3 large red fin tinfoils in a 75 gallon bowfront. now i jus got this tank and have run into some problems for one ive noticed that in a larger tank you have to put a filter on one side of the tank and for me this hasnt been working out as the other side without any filtration seems to be filthy with solid and particle waste. my filter is brand new everything is working its the marineland emperor 400 which is supposed to be able to handle up to a 90 gallon aquarium. i dont see that happening since it cant even keep a 75 clean so any information would be great to help me solve your problem...btw i am a huge barb fan as well as bala sharks and kois so tell me if your into that too thank!!!!:-D

iamntbatman 01-08-2010 02:22 PM

Hello and welcome to the forums! Feel free to ask any questions you might have or for general advice, as we'd be glad to help.

koiholder2010 01-08-2010 02:30 PM

can you tell me about my filtration problem ?

aunt kymmie 01-08-2010 02:30 PM

Hi Ryan, welcome to the forum. We're glad you decided to join us! Not sure what to say about your filter "problem". How often are you performing water changes?

koiholder2010 01-08-2010 02:33 PM

every two weeks so far a 25% change but i just dont feel that the filters doing its job :/

iamntbatman 01-08-2010 03:05 PM

Well, you're turning your tank over 5 1/3 times per hour with that filter. That falls within the manufacturer specifications, sure. In my opinion, you should be turning over your water much more than that, especially with such large, messy fish as you've got. I would recommend turning it over at least ten times per hour, meaning that another Emperor 400 at the other end of the tank would probably be a very good thing. Keep in mind that you've got a fairly large tank so water movement at the end opposite a power filter isn't going to be very good, which is why so much waste accumulates down there.

Now for the really bad news that you probably don't want to hear: your tank is far too small for the fish you've got. Koi can grow to three feet in length and are essentially unhousable in in-home tanks. They're much better suited for large outdoor ponds. Usually something on the order of 1000 gallons is suggested if you want to keep koi. I would recommend a larger tank for the barbs as well, as they grow to about a foot and and are active swimmers that need a lot of space. A 150g tank is probably about the bare minimum for tinfoil barbs, although larger than this would be ideal. Finally, the barbs are a tropical, warm-water species while the koi prefer lower temperatures, so housing these two types of fish together means that one of the groups is living outside of its comfort zone, dramatically increasing the chance for illness. If you have a pond for the koi, that would be much better. If you're set on keeping the tinfoils, you should think about upgrading to a larger tank as soon as you can.

koiholder2010 01-08-2010 03:45 PM

thanks you for the advice and yes i do have a pond 650 gallons already stocked with koi but the ones in there are much larger then the three i have. when they gte to large i will transport them over in the out side pond which is heated to 70 degrees. the reason i like to heat it is so the koi wont go dormant for the winter increasing there growth throughout the year. about the tinfoils. i really love the fish and some of my buddies have very large tanks a 200 gallon and a project that was so amazing i couldnt belive it a over 8000 gallon amazon tank that took years to construct he already has a school of 20 to 30 tinfoils in there reaching 12in while these are only 5 haha he also has more exotic types of fish like the striped catfish which would eat one of my small ones in one bite :) would you recomend getting a undergravel filter instead i dont know a whole lot on small indoor tanks such as mine hah

dramaqueen 01-08-2010 04:51 PM

Hello and welcome to the forum.

iamntbatman 01-08-2010 05:57 PM

Most people don't like "typical" undergravel filter setups. These work in one of two ways:

1) Air pumps pump air down the lift tubes into air stones, causing the air to rise and push water upwards with it. The water flow up the tubes means that water from the bottom of the tubes (under the filter plate) needs to be replaced, so water flows through your gravel.

2) Powerheads can be attached to the top of the lift tubes, dramatically increasing water flow.

The problem with either of these methods is that you end up with a lot of gunk stuck under the filter plate. As this gunk builds up it messes with the flow significantly and is a huge pain to clean. Cleaning it can also do a lot to disturb bacteria colonies, which is, of course, a bad thing.

But, there is a way to use UGF's much more efficiently: get powerheads capable of reverse flow and attach these to the lift tubes. This forces water down the tubes and up through the gravel. It has the same effect as the normal setup (water flowing through the gravel encourages bacterial growth in the gravel) except it has the added benefit of preventing solid waste from your fish from settling in the gravel and under the filter plate. Combined with a power filter like you've already got, this can really reduce the need for gravel vacuuming and means you'll almost never need to clean out under the filter plate. If you do choose a UGF, I'd go for this kind of setup.

There are limitations, though. You can't have a substrate other than larger gravel as it will clog the filter plate, and you can't really have a tank with rooted plants when using a UGF. For these reasons I avoid them and stick with other filter types (power filters, canisters, sponge filters, etc.).

koiholder2010 01-08-2010 06:38 PM

so what your saying is to jus go ahead and buy a additional emperor 4oo?

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