Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources

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-   -   SCARED! Mollies w/mystery malady. Noob - Please HELP! (http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/tropical-fish-diseases/scared-mollies-w-mystery-malady-noob-3433/)

Peggy 02-19-2007 03:43 PM

SCARED! Mollies w/mystery malady. Noob - Please HELP!
 
I'll try to be as brief & informative as possible.


[/b]Current Set-up:10 gal: 3 [info]Female Mollies[/info] - 1 8-10 mos
1 Teenager
1 Adult - Preggers
2 Fe/Male [info]Tiger Barbs[/info]
1 [info]Blue Gourami [/info](3")
2 [info]Ghost Shrimp[/info]

10 gal:[info] 3 Male Mollies [/info]- 1 6mos
1 Teenager
1 Oversexed Adult
1 [info]Red Barb [/info](??type)
1 3.5" [info]Goldfish[/info]
2 [info]Ghost Shrimp[/info]

Experience: Kept fish in long ago past; doesn't count. Had most of these fish since 6/06; mollies have always been together. Read lots B4 started this; and read lots herein and thru library, etc.
Environment: I test water about every other week, more often if indicated. I have fresh plants at all times, a bamboo in one and a new and growing lily in the other tank. I also have some floating lacy-type plant I buy at the fish store, for baby mollies (someday??) and to hide and play in. I have an airstone in each as well as a small microphone shaped airstone on opposite side of the tank for fun and to go along with a ceramic "stone" on tank floor. Enuf silkish plants for all to hide, but still swim room. By some standards they are crowded, but mine have always been happy fish ...until now. Been looking for a 50-gallon tank (used) for past month.
Diet: Feed them Tetra Min and Wardley's Essential's Tropical Food as mainstay. Also feed Tetra Min Crisps, Crumbles, Bloodworms, Marine Flakes and frozen brine shrimp with very occasional tubefex worms, also frozen, and a bit of romaine or peas on occasion for varied and nutritious diet.
Other Care & Info:I have a Tetra 5-15 Gallon Power Filter in each tank. I do my best on temp - but it's never gone below 72 and has been a pretty constant 78/80 for 6/8 weeks now. (Closer to 80 when they were all preggers - another story!) I do a 20 to 25% change every other week - pretty constant on this. I was a bit of a freak about the filter, used to rinse it out (yikes) about once a week, but now I just replace the charcoal about once a month, rinse out the tube, and then replace the filter every other month or so. Salt: have always added a T or so every once in a while, although adding more since they have been sick. (They seem to dig that - so I'll up the salt from now on).
Water Testing: I use Jungle Quick Dip strips. Used them constantly at first, had to use Wardley's Bullseye 7 a few times but all has been very good in past few months. A few tweaks here and there, but caught right away so no harm. Tested 3 times past 2 days w/these readings: Nitrate - 40ish, Nitrite 0 to .25 - (barely pink at all) Hardness - has always been in the midrange - 75 to 120 or so. Alkalinity: This ranged the past 2 days from 75 ish to to 110 - which is where it is now. This rarely has happened in the past - usually right around 110 to 140. Figures, everything else is all right. PH - right around 7. every time (6.9 to 7.3) last 2 months.

ILLNESS: 1st of all my mollies are plain all black mollies, eyes, fins, body, scales everything! Makes it hard to even see their eyes, etc. However, they have a bit of a "tuxedo" marking of white around the gills under the neck. (A few don't). My fem youngest has always had greyish fins on her belly, as well as a light grey area there, whether pg or not. She also has always had some disability with swimming...like her tail bone was broken or not working. She kind of moves her body to get around more than others, but her fins look normal both sides and top and move normally, too. She is the sickest now though! Well, for past week I have noticed the other two fems with the fins on underside also are white and all three have a sort of pale pale grey you can see on their sides, underbelly and one has a very narrow "band or ring" around her body just in front of her dorsal? (top) fin.This is not what I would call "cottoney" but looks more like it is under the scales - you can mostly see it looking at them from the sides - but visible straight on, too. Only one male (teenager) has this noticibly. Both males and females have a tiny white(very) spot either just under the eye or on the lid. It is NOT cloudy, but clear and tiny and round and BRIGHT WHITE. It looks like it is slightly under the eye, but even with a mag glass it is hard 2 tell - eyes are all black too! This is new in the past 48 hours! Not every fish has this but 4/6 do. Also, males have less of the gray then females do. Only 1 molly is for sure visibly pregnant, I'd say 1/2 way along. The youngest (sickest) has been spending time on the bottom for 2-3 weeks now and it looks like she is rubbing her belly on rocks and other objects in tank - but not always so I didn't worry much - she just got over being pregnant so I chalked it up to that. Well, now they are all doing it. These guys lived at the top of the tank just 2 weeks ago...just waiting for a hand out!. All still have very healthy appetites. They do seem to be working their gills at neck to breathe more than usual - kind of fast.

Of Note: I don't know if this is important, but it is very new and very unusual behavior so I note it here. My adult male - BlackJack, has been sexually abusive! Literally. Don't think I've even ever seen him mate with any of the girls in the past. But now he has been at them NON-STOP for hours at a time. I watched him for 30 minutes go from one to the other to the other - I mean NON-STOP - I got distracted and 2 hours later he was either still doing that or doing it again. I put him in the "birth net" for 14 hours or so; longer than overnight then let him join the others. BAM! Within 10 minutes he was at it again. Later that day I again seperated him - same deal - same results again. Only by now all the females were STAYING on the bottom - bellies to the rocks! (can't blame them!). But by now, when the dominant male was gone, the teenager started in on them - they were not as easy target for him, though. It was then that I
moved all 3 males to the tank with the goldfish & Rosey (red barb). Believe it or not, 3 hours later both BlackJack and Leon were sniffing and chasing each other ... I SWEAR ... didn't actually catch them in the act, but all they did was swim in circles with one or the other of them's "nose" on the others underside! Luckily they left Nipper (youngest) one alone. I mention this because it occurs to me that this kind of mirrors the rubbing on the bottom the fems do...which I would imagine with their would be rather painful.



WHAT THIS IS NOT: The symptoms are not "cloudy" or "cottoney" spots. They are not small white dots like ICK. I can't tell if there is any red or black streaks or spider marks because they are all black. There are no worms, flukes, lice or missing scales or skin. There is no shreadding skin, fins, or scales. Eyes appear normal (other than white dots which may or may not be actually in the eye, anyway). There is no fraying, sticking together, or abnormal appearance on any fin. Their excrement is the same as it has always been; sometimes whitish and sometimes coppery colored. There is no bloating. There is no bleeding. They have normal/healthy appetites. The gills, and fins appear as they always have - not stuck out or too close to their bodies. They do appear to be having a harder time breathing. They are spending more time on the bottom than usual - except the preggers one, she's uptop looking for food, but even she is spending a fair amount of time there. Not coming up top to breath, per se, but do seem to be skimming more than usual with their noses just slightly out of the water. All now have greyish/whitish underbellies and the fins on their bellies are same color.

LASTLY - WHAT I HAVE DONE: Added more (diluted) sea salt to the tank - about a teaspoon and 1/4 per gallon. I have been adding MelaFix at 10:00 pm each night after a 25% water change. I have upped the heat to about 81. Last night was nite 3 - with little or no improvement. Since it could be a parasite, could be a fungus, or could be an infection of some sort, I am reluctant to treat with anything else. One fish store said velvet, one said true fungus or Oodinium, another said velvet, Trichodina (his opinion), or FISH POX! Read discriptions of each at linked web site on fish disease herein and at library. Looked at pix. Nothing seems completely like this... a bit of this and that, but nothing that really matches in description or looks.

One last note: My goldfish seemed to have a slight velvety appearance a week or so ago, but it was around time I became worried about mollies so I treated her/him with Melafix at same time and kept it up for 3 days, but it was only precautionary, because he looked fine within 36 hours. Seems fine now. Was a little sluggish but bouncing back now.

I am sorry if I am too detailed...I thought that is what you wanted.
SOB! Please help! I feel so helpless, and the baby fem is my favorite because she has always been so spunky and all in spite of her disability. I will watch often for any advice or help anyone can give. Sorry my first post is with a problem! I promise to keep you all advised. thanks a lot - from Mollies with mysterious malady!

musho3210 02-19-2007 04:25 PM

Well i cant really help, all i can say is to get rid of that goldfish and put it in a tank 30 gallons or more

Lupin 02-19-2007 05:14 PM

Re: SCARED! Mollies w/mystery malady. Noob - Please HELP!
 
Welcome.:wave:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Peggy
I have fresh plants at all times, a bamboo in one and a new and growing lily in the other tank.

I would just get rid of the bamboo plant. It won't live for long.:)
Quote:

I was a bit of a freak about the filter, used to rinse it out (yikes) about once a week, but now I just replace the charcoal about once a month, rinse out the tube, and then replace the filter every other month or so.
What water do you use to clean the filter? Tankwater is more advisable.
Quote:

Salt: have always added a T or so every once in a while, although adding more since they have been sick. (They seem to dig that - so I'll up the salt from now on).
I would stop adding salt. Some fish will not tolerate it long-term.
Quote:

Water Testing: I use Jungle Quick Dip strips. Used them constantly at first, had to use Wardley's Bullseye 7 a few times but all has been very good in past few months.
Is Wardley's a liquid test kit?:) Liquid test kits are better than strips in temrs of accuracy.
Quote:

A few tweaks here and there, but caught right away so no harm. Tested 3 times past 2 days w/these readings: nitrate - 40ish, nitrite 0 to .25 - (barely pink at all) Hardness - has always been in the midrange - 75 to 120 or so. Alkalinity: This ranged the past 2 days from 75 ish to to 110 - which is where it is now. This rarely has happened in the past - usually right around 110 to 140. Figures, everything else is all right. PH - right around 7. every time (6.9 to 7.3) last 2 months.
More water changes is advisable to reduce nitrites to zero. Where is your ammonia?
Quote:

Well, for past week I have noticed the other two fems with the fins on underside also are white and all three have a sort of pale pale grey you can see on their sides, underbelly and one has a very narrow "band or ring" around her body just in front of her dorsal? (top) fin.This is not what I would call "cottoney" but looks more like it is under the scales - you can mostly see it looking at them from the sides - but visible straight on, too. Only one male (teenager) has this noticibly. Both males and females have a tiny white(very) spot either just under the eye or on the lid. It is NOT cloudy, but clear and tiny and round and BRIGHT WHITE. It looks like it is slightly under the eye, but even with a mag glass it is hard 2 tell - eyes are all black too! This is new in the past 48 hours! Not every fish has this but 4/6 do. Also, males have less of the gray then females do. Only 1 molly is for sure visibly pregnant, I'd say 1/2 way along. The youngest (sickest) has been spending time on the bottom for 2-3 weeks now and it looks like she is rubbing her belly on rocks and other objects in tank - but not always so I didn't worry much - she just got over being pregnant so I chalked it up to that. Well, now they are all doing it. These guys lived at the top of the tank just 2 weeks ago...just waiting for a hand out!. All still have very healthy appetites. They do seem to be working their gills at neck to breathe more than usual - kind of fast.
Your water parameters are to be suspected as to why your mollies are breathing faster. Ammonia in tank which you haven't posted will result to gill burns. I still don't get the situation except breathing rapidly. Any chance of pictures?:)
Quote:

Since it could be a parasite, could be a fungus, or could be an infection of some sort, I am reluctant to treat with anything else. One fish store said velvet, one said true fungus or Oodinium, another said velvet, Trichodina (his opinion), or FISH POX! Read discriptions of each at linked web site on fish disease herein and at library. Looked at pix. Nothing seems completely like this... a bit of this and that, but nothing that really matches in description or looks.
Fish pox?:question: :blueshake: What's with the guy who said that?:sarcastic: There could be dog pox next.:shake:

Fungus rarely occurs and will occur only if the wounds become infected. They are present in your aquarium and will appear if the wounds are not treated hence it is a secondary infection to wounds.

None of those diseases mentioned fit the descriptions of what had happened to your mollies.

Quote:

One last note: My goldfish seemed to have a slight velvety appearance a week or so ago, but it was around time I became worried about mollies so I treated her/him with Melafix at same time and kept it up for 3 days, but it was only precautionary, because he looked fine within 36 hours. Seems fine now. Was a little sluggish but bouncing back now.
Pictures will also help here.:)
Quote:

I am sorry if I am too detailed...I thought that is what you wanted.
SOB! Please help! I feel so helpless, and the baby fem is my favorite because she has always been so spunky and all in spite of her disability. I will watch often for any advice or help anyone can give. Sorry my first post is with a problem! I promise to keep you all advised. thanks a lot - from Mollies with mysterious malady![/b]
No, you have provided more details than we could have imagined.:) The only things missing are ammonia(I might have miss it.) and pictures. Further clarification of your situation by pictures will definitely help.:)

musho3210 02-19-2007 06:05 PM

remember when you add salt to only add it with new water, when the water evaporates only the H2O molecules evaporate, the salt stays, if salt levels get too high the fish will die. The only way to remove salt from the tank is by taking the water out

St6_Devgru 02-19-2007 09:31 PM

well when i put salt into my tank, i get lots of brown algae like organisms sticking to the glass and some ornaments. oh and blues right the bamboo will ....just take it out lol didnt work for me either. i think youd get a 55 gllon for i rarely find any 50 gallons

FDStation152 02-19-2007 09:53 PM

If it were just the mollies you'd be fine with continuing to add salt...they are quite capable of being acclimated to saltwater...however I don't think the other fish will fare nearly as well with increased salt levels.

lioness501 02-20-2007 10:09 AM

ive had 2 black mollies now and both died from exactly the same problem as u r having, tho my other coloured mollies have never been ill. i now have vowed never to buy another black molly, ever!!


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