Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources

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xrayjeeper83 11-04-2009 07:44 PM

school me on angels
Im sure alot of you have read my thread about ICH wiping out my tank fish by fish, I havent given up on them yet. BUT........

If the worst happeneds and I do lose them all. Im going to switch to angel fish. I have always thought they were pretty fish. I did some searching on here and didnt find what I was looking for(I suck at searching though). I want to know ideal water conditions for angel fish. Also Im thinking for putting a groumi(sp) and some tetra's in with them. What would be ideal tetra's that are easy to find and kinda cheap?

Oh ya this is all going into a 29 gallon tank.

bettababy 11-05-2009 02:06 AM

The first thing I can tell you about angels is NOT to put them into a 29 gallon tank. Angelfish get too large for a tank of that size. For 2 - 3 of them I would suggest nothing less than 75 - 90 gallons. They grow quickly, are aggressive, and get large (average 5 - 8 inches, altums and wild purebred scalare can reach up to 10 inches).

Also, never a good idea to mix angelfish with gouramis, unless you have an extremely large tank that is extremely well planted. I do not say this lightly. Gouramis carry the same territorial and aggressive habits as the angels, and they occupy the same territory in the tank. This causes many issues.

For 29 gallons, a male dwarf gourami, or pair (male/female, never 2 males in a small tank together) along with most species of tetras would make a good mixture for that size of a tank. Watch adult sizes on the species of fish you seek. Some tetras, such as congo tetras, will get too large to put into 29 gallons, and also watch aggression levels.. some tetras such as serpae tetras are too aggressive to keep with even a dwarf gourami. Serpae tetras are known to chew up the fins of the gouramis, which causes swimming ability issues, infection, and even death.
Be selective. If you wish for help, let us know. There are many here who can suggest tetra species to work with dwarf gouramis.

To address your ich issue... can you please post a link here to your other thread? If you currently have an ich issue, and should you lose all of your fish, you will need to leave your tank void of any fish for at least 5 - 6 weeks to be sure the ich is gone. Raising the temp in the tank to 86 (without fish in it) can speed up this process, but you should still wait at least 4 wks to be sure the new fish will not be immediately infected.

Maybe I can help with your ich issue and a treatment to save your current fish... I would very much like to try if you can post the link here.

Hope this helps.

xrayjeeper83 11-05-2009 10:22 AM
heres the link to my fight against ICH.

Thanks for the info on the angels. Guess Ill go for a gourami. and then some neon's and what not. Dont really want a male and female, I dont want to deal with babys.

Byron 11-05-2009 12:00 PM


Originally Posted by xrayjeeper83 (Post 269143)
heres the link to my fight against ICH.

Thanks for the info on the angels. Guess Ill go for a gourami. and then some neon's and what not. Dont really want a male and female, I dont want to deal with babys.

Many fish will be healthier if kept as a pair, or sometimes (depends upon the species) in specific groupings, like a male and 2-3 females. It allows the fish to be more natural in its behaviours, and this is always more rewarding for the aquarist. You will generally not have babies with egglayers. In a community tank, any eggs that are laid will usually be quickly eaten, within minutes if not seconds, either by the parents in some cases or the other fish. Eggs are a gourmet delicacy to fish, and they know when its about to happen.

Your experience has probably been with livebearers; the larger young are often able to find refuge easily and quickly grow. This is not so with egg laying fish. My characins are always spawning, but never do I have fry.

Research your intended fish before you decide. Many problems can be averted.


bettababy 11-05-2009 12:48 PM

I would not mix neons with any species of gourami, that's not safe.

As for Byron's comment about egg layers... I have to disagree when it comes to the gouramis. Gouramis are not "egg layers" in the same way as tetras and other egg layers. Gouramis are bubble nesters, like bettas... and will defend their nest and fry fiercly. There is no reason you cannot successfully keep 1 male gourami in a community tank of 29 gallons.

Now, I was able to check on your thread about the ich. Can you offer me any updates since the pleco died? How are the other fish doing?
For future reference, rubber lip plecos are not a good mix with African cichlids. The cichlids you have are quite aggressive fish, so if the stress doesn't get the pleco, the attacks likely would. It sounds as if yours had issues when you first brought it home, and that was likely made worse by the stress of the cichlids. In the future, there are very few pleco species that do well in an African cichlid tank. The common or standard pleco is one of the few. Rubber lip plecos prefer much softer water than African cichlids, where as the common plecos can handle the water conditions much better.
Because many/most African cichlids are primarily vegetarian fish, a pleco is typically not needed in an African cichlid tank. The fish will pick algae from the rocks, and from the glass if they can manage to get it off.

I will do what I can to help you with our ich outbreak, but I will need more information and pictures of the fish if possible. What meds did you attempt to use? How long since treatment began? Ended? Are the fish still showing signs of infection? The more you can tell me the better... and water params for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH would also help.

xrayjeeper83 11-05-2009 07:16 PM

Once the pleco died I thought I was in the clear, but then my catfish came out of hiding and was covered in ich(he hides all day for the most part) he died within a day, and know my red peacock is showing signs of ICH. My jewel and lab dont seem to have any yet. I am slowly kicking up the heat in the tank to 86 i believe is what I was told, and doing small water changes. So far that has seem to slow the progression of the ick on the peacock, if not starting to reverse it.

Last I checked my nitrate's were elevated some, but no amm or nitrites. Ph was some where around 7.4 ish. I have the dipping sticks(found out they werent the best idea after doing some reading on here and Im waiting for my LFS to get a good master kit in)

xrayjeeper83 11-05-2009 07:17 PM

I ran out of meds, dont remember then name of it at this time, and someone on here mentioned to just stop using meds all together and just raise the temp. I think I used it for 3-4 days before running out

bettababy 11-06-2009 01:54 AM

Raising the temp alone is not going to do the trick. Typically salt is used at the same time. The higher temp speeds up the life cycle of the ich, but doesn't kill it alone. Typically it does take medication to get rid of it, especially when in such an advanced stage.

Was the med you used "Formalin"? It helps to know what you tried to use. Also please know that even with meds, as the ich goes through its life cycle, it is not susceptible to the meds at every stage. The meds are designed to kill it while it is in its free swimming phase of life cycle. By speeding up the life cycle with higher temps, thus it makes it more vulnerable and faster to ensure all stages cycle through while the medication is being administered.
Please run an air stone when raising temp. Warmer water contains less oxygen, and for fish that are not accustomed to 86 that can be quite stressful. The last thing you want to do now is further weaken their immune system.

I can help you if you want... will leave it up to you.

Also you should know that your pH, if accurate at that number, is quite low for those species of fish. That could have contributed to your ich problem to start with. Stress brings on ich, and that low of a pH for a hard water fish is very stressful. For African cichlids, a proper pH range would be 8.0 - 8.2 The only exception being the jewel who should be able to handle either lower or higher pH, they are quite adaptable if its done properly.

Have you considered ordering the test kits online? You might get them quicker that way. It doesn't sound like your fish have a whole lot of time to wait. Sorry to hear about your losses.

mollies 11-06-2009 02:51 AM

Yes just raising the temp and water changes as i had told him in a post will do the trick. I have done that many of times and got rid of the ich. With out useing any salt or meds. If you read his post he has reposted here it will explain better.

xrayjeeper83 11-06-2009 09:24 AM

well it looks like my fish have LIVED. Still doing water changes and raising temps, but my fish are showing no signs of ICH. THANKS GOODNESS.

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