Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources

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-   -   photo period (http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/beginner-planted-aquarium/photo-period-31498/)

burntchef 10-31-2009 07:44 PM

photo period
 
current set up is a 50 gall seaclear acrylic, one 96 watt c/f no co2 for now. what is a good length of time to run lighting before its too much, and what if i add co2?

also is there a link to a thread about what color temps of bulbs are best for planted tanks?

thanks
howard

Jack Middleton 10-31-2009 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burntchef (Post 266830)
current set up is a 50 gall seaclear acrylic, one 96 watt c/f no co2 for now. what is a good length of time to run lighting before its too much, and what if i add co2?

also is there a link to a thread about what color temps of bulbs are best for planted tanks?

thanks
howard

No longer than 4 hours without CO2, you could stretch to 6 hours with a Glutaraldehyde additive, to provide carbon.

Kelvin is irrelevant, go with a colour that is pleasing on your eyes. about 9000K is a what i prefer to use

MoneyMitch 11-01-2009 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burntchef (Post 266830)
current set up is a 50 gall seaclear acrylic, one 96 watt c/f no co2 for now. what is a good length of time to run lighting before its too much, and what if i add co2?

also is there a link to a thread about what color temps of bulbs are best for planted tanks?

thanks
howard

howard im going to have to agree with jack on this. Kelvin doesnt matter to plants, if you google photosynthesis and then read up on chlorophil a and b you will learn that a plant can adapt to any light condition and be just fine. nothing but how the light looks will be diffrent.

burntchef 11-01-2009 11:14 AM

wow only 4 hours? iam running about 8 now, why such a short period?

also whats "Glutaraldehyde additive" i do use flourish from seachem on a regualr basis.

Byron 11-01-2009 11:55 AM

Howard, the info in the previous posts is very misleading if not totally inaccurate, as I intend to explain...yet again. Links to information as you asked for will be provided in what follows.

Photosynthesis uses light in the blue and red colours of the spectrum, and reflects light in the green. This is a scientific fact. The first link is to an article from the Tropica plant site in Denmark, written by three Europeans and which first appeared in the publication The Aquatic Gardner, volume 20(2), 2007, pp. 26-35. The Aquatic Gardners' Society is highly respected in the field of aquatic plants, and Tropica Nursery is similar, employing professional botanists who understand plants. This is an excellent article on this subject.
Tropica

The second link is to an exchange on the forum of Acquatic Plant Central but the first post is very detailed, and others follow (for 11 pages).

Lighting Spectrum and Photosythesis - Lighting - Aquatic Plant Central

I could cite dozens similar. My conclusion is simple from the facts. Plants most need blue and red light, they reflect green. But blue and red alone creates a purplish hue to the aquarium which does not render true colour of plants and fish. Adding the green balances. Full spectrum best achieves this. The sun at mid-day has a colour temperature of around 5500K, so a tube close to this will probably be natural, although they can vary because of particular emphasis in the manufacture.

Where there are two tubes over a tank, one can mix a full spectrum with a cool white to achieve what scientific studies have determined is the best light for plant growth. In a test that I mentioned in another thread, plants responded with the best growth to a mix of full spectrum and cool white, second best to cool white alone, and third best to warm white alone. The evidence speaks for itself. The test appeared in the July 1987 issue of FAMA, in an article by K. Richards, pp. 16-20, and was cited in Diana Walstad's book, Ecology of the Planted Aquarium, should you want to track it down.

All of these findings over more than 20 years agree on the science and hundreds of aquarists have observed the obvious results of following the advice. If you want to see my tanks as proof, check the photos under My Aquariums. This is what some term low-tech, I prefer the term "natural" aquarium because it makes the most use of nature with the least amount of interference by the aquarist. If you are aiming for a similar style of planted aquarium, it is easy to achieve at little expense.

To your initial question, 96 watts over a 50g is high light in my view; I would aim for no more than 1 watt per gallon without CO2 which is what I have over my three tanks. The plants that will thrive under this system are the majority; those few others such as some of the grass substrate covers and such need more, and probably benefit from added CO2. What you need to spend on paraphernalia depends upon the type of tank you want in the end.

Byron.

aaronnorth 11-02-2009 04:51 AM

Quote:

Tropica Nursery is similar, employing professional botanists who understand plants. This is an excellent article on this subject.
Tropica still believe Nitrate & Phosphate cause algae aswell..... yet they still add it to their fertilisers :/

here are some papers showing the effect of green light on photosynthesis

Green Light Drives Leaf Photosynthesis More Efficiently than Red Light in Strong White Light: Revisiting the Enigmatic Question of Why Leaves are Green -- Terashima et al. 50 (4): 684 -- Plant and Cell Physiology

Effects of Green Light on the Chloroplasts of Spinach Leaf Discs -- POSSINGHAM et al. 26 (1): 33 -- Journal of Experimental Botany

As said by moneymitch chlorphyll a + b can utilise green light. Go for a kelvin between 4000 - 10 000k as it will look the most natural, go either side and your tank will look pink or blue!

"Glutaraldehyde additive" is the base component of seachem excel and easylife easycarbo ("liquid carbon" as it is sometimes called)

Thanks, Aaron

MoneyMitch 11-02-2009 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaronnorth (Post 267479)
Tropica still believe Nitrate & Phosphate cause algae aswell..... yet they still add it to their fertilisers :/

here are some papers showing the effect of green light on photosynthesis

Green Light Drives Leaf Photosynthesis More Efficiently than Red Light in Strong White Light: Revisiting the Enigmatic Question of Why Leaves are Green -- Terashima et al. 50 (4): 684 -- Plant and Cell Physiology

Effects of Green Light on the Chloroplasts of Spinach Leaf Discs -- POSSINGHAM et al. 26 (1): 33 -- Journal of Experimental Botany

As said by moneymitch chlorphyll a + b can utilise green light. Go for a kelvin between 4000 - 10 000k as it will look the most natural, go either side and your tank will look pink or blue!

"Glutaraldehyde additive" is the base component of seachem excel and easylife easycarbo ("liquid carbon" as it is sometimes called)

Thanks, Aaron

+1

Byron 11-02-2009 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaronnorth (Post 267479)
Tropica still believe Nitrate & Phosphate cause algae aswell..... yet they still add it to their fertilisers :/

here are some papers showing the effect of green light on photosynthesis

Green Light Drives Leaf Photosynthesis More Efficiently than Red Light in Strong White Light: Revisiting the Enigmatic Question of Why Leaves are Green -- Terashima et al. 50 (4): 684 -- Plant and Cell Physiology

Effects of Green Light on the Chloroplasts of Spinach Leaf Discs -- POSSINGHAM et al. 26 (1): 33 -- Journal of Experimental Botany

As said by moneymitch chlorphyll a + b can utilise green light. Go for a kelvin between 4000 - 10 000k as it will look the most natural, go either side and your tank will look pink or blue!

"Glutaraldehyde additive" is the base component of seachem excel and easylife easycarbo ("liquid carbon" as it is sometimes called)

Thanks, Aaron

All very well if you're growing spinach in your garden; but I though we were discussing planted aquaria. You seem to have forgotten that aquatic plants are under water.

Water blocks light extensively. Only blue can penetrate its depths sufficiently to enable aquatic plants to grow stronger. Which makes sense to most of us. Red leaf plants require brighter (more intense) light; why? Because in appearing red they are reflecting some of the red light they need, so there has to be more.

We are also considering low-tech in most of these threads, something else that has completely escaped certain individuals. There was considerable information in the first linked article on high intensity light being necessary for the green absorption. Not applicable to this issue.

None of this alters in any way what I have been advocating, and shall continue to advocate, as the most reliable and efficient method of setting up a thriving planted aquarium. Taking statements out of context is not going to disprove the facts.

Byron.

aunt kymmie 11-02-2009 09:10 PM

Based on my actual experience and success I must say I agree w/ Byron 100% as far as the info he's providing. It's working for me and as the old saying goes, "if it ain't broke don't fix it".

WisFish 11-04-2009 10:12 AM

The only thing I'd add is that I feel you can go as high as 2 watts per gallon without CO2. I have 96 watts over my 55gal without CO2 but I do use Excel. I used to use about 1 watt per gallon and had problems growing a few plants because of insufficient light.


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