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-   -   Echinodorus bleheri (Amazon Sword) help (http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/beginner-planted-aquarium/echinodorus-bleheri-amazon-sword-help-31362/)

MoneyMitch 10-28-2009 10:27 PM

Echinodorus bleheri (Amazon Sword) help
 
5 Attachment(s)
Ok i have posted about the same thing before but this time just want to confirm things now that its been about two or three months since the plants been in my tank. ive trimmed about eh maybe 15 or so leafs since ive had the thing due to them dieing off and such. but now i have a new problem. there is something on the leafs and idk what it is or how to get rid of it or how it even got there.

Lighting is a 18000K powerglow (for all you kelvin guys) 20 watt

Fert is just a flourish root tab

No c02

12/12 light schedule

ph, 8.2
nitrite 0
ammonia 0
nitrate 20-30
gh/kh off the scale

Ok here are some pictures the ones that are have the circles are what is growin on the plant. the arrow are new leafs coming from the mid. and as you can see from some of the pics the older leafs seeem to all be dieing off since the inner ring of leavs are vibrant green and the outter ones are bleh.
ok time for pix!!!! yay!!!
P.S excuse the mess just fed them like 2 mins before i took the pix.

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Kelso 10-28-2009 11:10 PM

What substrate are you using...amazon swords are picky, they like to move around until they get comfortable...mine sits tucked in the back further than I had planted it and pushed himself around and sits really awkwardly...but it keeps growing none the less...

My sword is planted in a standard gravel, with no fertilizer or co2...my lighting is 5500k (15 watts) with a 14/10 light schedule and my ph is 7.2 ish...I think it really may be your substrate...this is it works for me, compare and see if some changes could make a difference

MoneyMitch 10-29-2009 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by npjpkac (Post 265545)
What substrate are you using...amazon swords are picky, they like to move around until they get comfortable...mine sits tucked in the back further than I had planted it and pushed himself around and sits really awkwardly...but it keeps growing none the less...

My sword is planted in a standard gravel, with no fertilizer or co2...my lighting is 5500k (15 watts) with a 14/10 light schedule and my ph is 7.2 ish...I think it really may be your substrate...this is it works for me, compare and see if some changes could make a difference

Thanks for your input, dont understand how your sword would move unless you have fish that are digging. As far as trying a diffrent substrate that is out of the question. way to much time/money to change that out. im suprised yours is doing so well w/o any fert at all but then again you may have a diffrent strain of sword than i do. but its known that these guys are very heavy feeders. would still like to hear what everyone else thinks of my issue though.

Mitch

Kelso 10-29-2009 08:57 AM

It actually like moves itself around with its roots...none of my fish have the digging prowess or the strength to move it...it probably weighs as much as all my fish do. It sits like a mangrove tree almost...the plant definitely has a mind of its own, haha. Sorry I couldn't be more of a help...my only guess is its lacking a nutrient of some sort.

Byron 10-29-2009 02:33 PM

Mitch, if you use your fingertips can you remove the brown stuff? If yes, it is diatoms. Some of the photos look like this is it, but I wouldn't swear to it.

If it does not come off like algae would, then it is a nutrient issue. We can think about that after you comment on the test above.

Byron.

MoneyMitch 10-29-2009 03:11 PM

yea it will come off if i rub the leafs between my fingers.

Byron 10-29-2009 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoneyMitch (Post 265795)
yea it will come off if i rub the leafs between my fingers.

Then it is diatoms, generally considered as a type of algae. Common in fairly new tanks. Here's a link to some info that may help. PG: Algae - An Overview - PlantGeek.net

Otocinclus will eat this (not a good choice with your African's or in hard alkaline water), snails may. I would just rub it off the leaves.

B.

MoneyMitch 10-29-2009 03:21 PM

what about the leaf die off?

Jack Middleton 10-29-2009 03:51 PM

The brown algae will be cause by ammonia, in undetectable amounts, common in immature tanks as byron says.

I suggest you buy some potassium nitrate and potassium phosphate, how big is the tank, and are the leaves brittle, do the leaves appear twisted?

The brown leaves are more than likely caused by a nitrogen deficiency. Also the roots are looking rather under developed, this would indicate a phosphorous deficiency.

Byron 10-29-2009 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoneyMitch (Post 265803)
what about the leaf die off?

The last thread we had on that, I determined it was the old growth, and if it continued then it would be a nutrient deficiency. The only other thing I can think of would be the high pH and hardness; E. bleheri is said to be good in harder water, but maybe your water is too hard. This has an effect on nutrients.

I'm not a botanist, and there is no quick answer, so I can only make some observations from my research.

An excess of some nutrients will cause a deficiency of another within the plant. If this is the case, then faster-growing plants will generally fare better because they use the nutrients faster, whereas slower-growing plants have to store them and there is a limit to this beyond which the plant suffers. An excess of iron shows up as dark brown spots or blotches, followed by yellowing of the leaf around these and then spreading. I can't see this in the first photograph, but it is a photo and this is still a possibility.

Chlorosis, or yellowing of leaf tissue, can occur when a plant is unable to produce normal amounts of chlorophyll due to a lack of nutrients. Pinpointing the specific nutrient is difficult, which is why I constantly recommend the comprehensive balanced fertilizers. I believe you earlier said you have root tabs, so one would assume this is not the problem. However, the hard water is obviously due to nutrients, calcium and magnesium and others. Perhaps there is iron in your water.

I am going to do some further research into this, hopefully I will find some better guidance to pass along. I can see other plants in the background, not clear though...are they OK or showing similar symptoms? Do you know the GH and KH of your water; the lfs may test it for you, or the local water supply might provide it. And your light, I thought you had a Life-Glo and a Power-Glo...or just the latter as mentioned earlier in this thread? Twelve hours of light is a lot, the Power-Glo is an intense tube and there could be an imbalance. Nutrients and light greater than CO2 from the fish...I would reduce the light period to 9 or 10 hours.

Byron.


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