Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources

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onekatietwo 07-24-2009 06:21 PM

Young Goldfish Conformation
 
Soooooooooo, I just now brought home my third goldfish. He was kind of an impulse buy. They don't really have a lot to chose from at my local stores as both of them focus mainly on saltwater fish.

Well, anyway it was labled as a Ryukin but he doesn't look a thing like my other one. His body is quite a bit longer and there is no hump to speak of. However, he's also pretty little - maybe an inch or two.

Do you think he was mislabled or do the body shapes of goldfish change quite a bit as they get older?

onekatietwo 07-24-2009 06:42 PM

Edit- As I look at him more, he looks a little more ryukinish. Maybe its just a mixture of being young and maybe being a 'bad' specimen, which is totally fine with me. I'm more interested in healthy, cute fish than ones considered 'perfect' by showing standards.

Second question - what kind of veggies and snacks do goldfish like? I'd love to try live food, but I'm too paranoid about introducing something nasty. So far I've learned that mine LOVE to nibble on romaine lettuce for the better part of a day. I'd like to suppliment their diet with some other things because I've heard that diversity is key and that makes perfect sense to me.

Lupin 07-24-2009 11:06 PM

I believe your goldy is a fantail, Katie. Could you please post a photo of the fish?

I would not advise doing flakes which can expand and quickly cause the goldfish digestive issues if it clogs inside the system. Goldfish will like vegetable matter in their diet. A lot of plants are often consumed. You could also try frozen bloodworms, mosquito larva and make gel foods in addition. If at all possible, go with Hikari Lionhead. It's a sinking pellet and work well for those that get "floaty" just from consuming floating foods (although it is not all the time the floating foods are the issue). You might want to check the labels and avoid foods with too much starch-based ingredients. Of course, this applies more to round bodied variants. If they were comets, common goldfish and shubunkins, they are unlikely to have such issues and will take anything readily.

onekatietwo 07-25-2009 08:55 AM

I think you're absolutely correct.He's got the tail, but his body is more elongated and he doesn't have the beak-like, triangle head that my other Ryukin has got. Either way, I'm not too concerned about it. He was only five dollars. I bought him because I liked his pale yellow/orange coloring, but now I think it might get darker as he grows older.
I'm working on pictures. I couldn't get any good ones of him in the quarantine tank and I didn't want to flash him half to death when he just moved, anyway. Or, well, 'she'... haha. I think I might give this one a girl name.
But anyway, I might just toss 'her' into the real tank soon anyway. The quarantine tank is giving me headaches and she looks quite healthy, anyway. So pictures are soon to come.

And on food, so far I've been feeding them a mixture of a couple different brands of flakes and some pellets with the occasional lettuce leaf and a few freeze-dried blood worms once in a while. Idon't want to switch entirely to pellets at this point because one of them doesn't seem to like to eat them. It might just be that they're a little too large for his mouth (even though I already chop them in half.)
I'll be sure to check for starch-based ingredients and chose accordingly from now on. I'll also check for the brand that you suggested, or just order it off the net.

So far I haven't had any problems with them getting any floating/swimming/bloating issues from the flakes, which is good. I've also been feeding them more than I would otherwise since they are still young/small. I've read that while they're in their first year or two of growth, you should give them more food and more protein based food so they can reach their maximum size. I'm not sure if this is true...
But, the tank is double filtered and I've been doing a lot of water changes to compensate.

Thanks for your tips and info, and all your help in the past as well. :) I'm so happy I got goldfish, they're amazing.

Lupin 07-25-2009 10:47 AM

The trouble with flakes is even with nutrients added in them, the vitamins are water-soluble and therefore degrade rather quickly thus flakes become total junk. The fish would have to eat them as soon as they hit the water but the downside comes when the flakes expand inside the body and clog the organs, not to mention add air in the GI tract thus causing buoyancy issues. Don't wait for it to happen. I'd stop right now before even bothering with flakes again. None of my fish will ever be allowed to eat that rubbish again for the reasons above.

The Hikari Lionhead is one of the few brands I truly recommend to other goldfish enthusiasts. The pellets are very small and should be okay for 2" goldfish. These do not even expand twice the size that other pellets do and has garlic added to entice the fish to eat. These were the ones that coaxed my comet and shubunkin to eat shortly after I placed them in my hospital tank having suffered horrible bloodshot fins and air bubble disease as a result of elevated temperature in my pond to 88 degrees.

As for quarantine, stick it there for 3-4 weeks. It does not take a short while for parasites to appear particularly ich, flukes and external parasites. If possible, treat it with praziquantel for flukes as flukes are very common in goldfish.

I feed my goldfish 4-5 times a day. They are all young with largest at 7 inches. Aim for a diet with 40-60% protein content but add veggies and natural foods such as plants in their diet as well. My feeding schedule is also compensated by frequent large water changes and it is very easily done since my setup is barebottom.:wink:

onekatietwo 07-29-2009 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lupin (Post 218337)
The trouble with flakes is even with nutrients added in them, the vitamins are water-soluble and therefore degrade rather quickly thus flakes become total junk. The fish would have to eat them as soon as they hit the water but the downside comes when the flakes expand inside the body and clog the organs, not to mention add air in the GI tract thus causing buoyancy issues. Don't wait for it to happen. I'd stop right now before even bothering with flakes again. None of my fish will ever be allowed to eat that rubbish again for the reasons above.

Yeah, you're probably right. I iwll regret it a lot if anything ends up happening. I doubt these are even high quality flakes at all.

Quote:

The Hikari Lionhead is one of the few brands I truly recommend to other goldfish enthusiasts. The pellets are very small and should be okay for 2" goldfish. These do not even expand twice the size that other pellets do and has garlic added to entice the fish to eat. These were the ones that coaxed my comet and shubunkin to eat shortly after I placed them in my hospital tank having suffered horrible bloodshot fins and air bubble disease as a result of elevated temperature in my pond to 88 degrees.
Eeek, that sounds awful. Did you find a way to keep your pond cooler or was it just during an out-of-place heatwave?
Anyway, I checked the chain petstore and they didn't have this type of food. One of the local ones might but, unfortunately, they're not open during any of the hours that I'm not at work so I just ordered some off the internet. They should be here in about a week or so, at which time my goldfish will have to say goodbye to their flakes and the random pond pellets that I have.
Do you order Hikari Lionhead off of the internet? If so, do you have a site to reccommend? I just used amazon. It wasn't the cheapest but I'm worried about some of the unverified, smaller distributers... as far as giving them my credit card numer.

Quote:

As for quarantine, stick it there for 3-4 weeks. It does not take a short while for parasites to appear particularly ich, flukes and external parasites. If possible, treat it with praziquantel for flukes as flukes are very common in goldfish.
I know, i know. I should do this. I ended up taking him out and putting him with my others, though.
Do you have any suggestions as to how to run a quarentine tank? Like, do you just keep an empty, fully cycled aquarium sitting around on standby all the time? Or do you just fill it up every time you need to use it and then change the water every day? I'm always worried that the quarentine situation will end up stressing a new fish more and making his worse off than it was when I got him.
I also don't have a lot of space for an extra aquarium. I was thinking I could get rid of it as soon as I fully stock my tank because I only plan on getting one or two more goldfish. But then I figured I would want to have it around in case one gets something and needs to be seperated and treated.

Over all, I think fish are just too much work/money/space for me. Haha.

Quote:

I feed my goldfish 4-5 times a day. They are all young with largest at 7 inches. Aim for a diet with 40-60% protein content but add veggies and natural foods such as plants in their diet as well. My feeding schedule is also compensated by frequent large water changes and it is very easily done since my setup is barebottom.:wink:
I've read that small, frequent feedings are generally better, but I think I'm at work far too much to manage four or five. But maybe I can manage about three. I'm going to try to do this. Anyway, when I leave veggies in they usually pick at them for about two days before eating it all. I suppose the grazing is good for them.

I ended up going with sandsubstrate in mind. I wanted to do bare, but I always wanted to try plants and dealing with potted plants and stuff didn't sound as fun. Right now I have some amazon swords in the tank. They're been doing greatso far and the fish don't bother them, but my tank gets really cold in the winter so I am kind of assuming they'll die since they look and sound like they're tropical. And even if they do live, the fish will probably end up eating or knocking them over when they're larger. But still. Worth a try.

Lupin 07-29-2009 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onekatietwo (Post 219833)
Yeah, you're probably right. I iwll regret it a lot if anything ends up happening. I doubt these are even high quality flakes at all.

These ones are likely filled with too much starch as they don't invest much on better ingredients than use starch to manipulate the protein content.

Quote:

Eeek, that sounds awful. Did you find a way to keep your pond cooler or was it just during an out-of-place heatwave?
I haven't done anything yet to block much of the sunlight but as it's rainy lately, I decided to reshuffle my stocks anyway and place the tropical ones in the pond so the goldies will not encounter this similar problem again. The tropicals do much better with this temperature bracket.

Quote:

Anyway, I checked the chain petstore and they didn't have this type of food. One of the local ones might but, unfortunately, they're not open during any of the hours that I'm not at work so I just ordered some off the internet. They should be here in about a week or so, at which time my goldfish will have to say goodbye to their flakes and the random pond pellets that I have.
Do you order Hikari Lionhead off of the internet? If so, do you have a site to reccommend? I just used amazon. It wasn't the cheapest but I'm worried about some of the unverified, smaller distributers... as far as giving them my credit card numer.
I don't order online. I just asked a friend to order them and mail them for me because I can't find Hikari Lionhead in my area either. Bought 3 packs which should last me 6 month. I use gel foods too so it might take even longer. Try the Mazuri gel foods too. A 99g pack of 5M70 Mazuri gel should last you a month or two. Mazuri caters to the dietary requirements of your goldies. It costs only about $5-8 in Goldfish Utopia site.

Quote:

I know, i know. I should do this. I ended up taking him out and putting him with my others, though.
Do you have any suggestions as to how to run a quarentine tank? Like, do you just keep an empty, fully cycled aquarium sitting around on standby all the time? Or do you just fill it up every time you need to use it and then change the water every day? I'm always worried that the quarentine situation will end up stressing a new fish more and making his worse off than it was when I got him.
My tanks are always occupied by the snails. Fortunately, I have a great dislike for copper so when I use any other meds that may still be toxic to snails, I simply move the snails to another tank until treatment is over and return them. My quarantine tank is simply barebottom with a sponge filter. I didn't need heater anymore as I live in the tropics. If your fish seems stressed by it, add some hiding places such as plastic plants there.

My black ranchu, Loco is in a quarantine tank all by himself. On the first week, he kept cowering in the corner and ignoring the foods that the snails decided to eat the food instead. The baby snails were not very happy when he took a new attitude prying them off the glass and chewing and spitting them off.:roll: He got moved to another tank where he lives happily with adult apple snails but he'll graduate to my 75g next week. He is now a feisty little bugger trying to nibble on my fingers whenever I feed him. I thought he would simply shy away since he was just by himself. He'll eventually join my other goldies.

Quote:

I also don't have a lot of space for an extra aquarium. I was thinking I could get rid of it as soon as I fully stock my tank because I only plan on getting one or two more goldfish. But then I figured I would want to have it around in case one gets something and needs to be seperated and treated.
Keep the tank, Katie. If you don't want to use it, empty it, clean the filter media and place it in the main tank's filter. If you want to use it again, just place the established filter media there.

Quote:

I've read that small, frequent feedings are generally better, but I think I'm at work far too much to manage four or five. But maybe I can manage about three. I'm going to try to do this. Anyway, when I leave veggies in they usually pick at them for about two days before eating it all. I suppose the grazing is good for them.
With young goldfish, I feed them 4-5 times a day. Adults can do fine with once a day but not young ones. Underfeeding will severely stunt them.

Quote:

I ended up going with sandsubstrate in mind. I wanted to do bare, but I always wanted to try plants and dealing with potted plants and stuff didn't sound as fun. Right now I have some amazon swords in the tank. They're been doing greatso far and the fish don't bother them, but my tank gets really cold in the winter so I am kind of assuming they'll die since they look and sound like they're tropical. And even if they do live, the fish will probably end up eating or knocking them over when they're larger. But still. Worth a try.
My goldy tanks are barebottom and I plan to pot the plants. Makes maintenance much easier. Sand is fine since it doesn't trap wastes like gravel does. I had to remove the gravel as I could not bear the pressure of vacuuming it anymore several times a week.

onekatietwo 08-06-2009 06:01 AM

Well, the food that you suggested just arrived in the mail. I gave them some last night. It appears that they pellets are small enough to fit in all of their mouths (though still perhaps a little too large to be comfortable for the Moor) It took them a little while to figure it out since they're used to floating food, but I think they'll do well on it. Thanks for the suggestion, Lupin.


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