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LOUIE ACES 06-23-2009 02:24 PM

HELP! my fish are getting beat up!
 
I seem to have acquired an addiction to buying the newest, most attractive arrivals to my local fish store. the problem is I might have over stocked my tank with what I was told were all "community" fish. Here's what I have so far:
1 Black Ghost Knife Fish - 5 in.
1 Glass Knife Fish - 2 in.
1 Albino Rainbow Shark - 3 in.
1 Redtail Shark - 1 in.
2 Blue Rams - 1 in. each
3 Angelfish - 1 in. each
1 Loricaria Catfish - 3 in.
1 Farlowella Catfish - 3 in.
1 Striped Raphael Catfish - 2 in.
1 Leopard Pleco - 2 in.
1 Clown Pleco - 1 in.

I have a 30 gallon freshwater tank set up with multiple caves, plants, and rocks for hiding spots. I purchased the 2 rams together hoping they would only fight each other because I know they get territorial but they're still very little so I thought it wouldn't happen for a while. Same with the sharks. I had neons but the BGKF seems to have eaten them because they're all gone. My main concern is my angels because they are the ones getting ripped up...fins all mangled and one lost an eye. Is there any one specific problem I have or am I overstocked?

Thanks for any help you can give me!

Mikaila31 06-23-2009 02:43 PM

The BGK, both sharks, the leopard pleco get too big for that tank. You need to get a MUCH bigger tank or take them back. The 30gal is still over stocked, you have alot of fish in there that will hit 6-7" (all the catfish, the clown pleco, and the glass knife fish). Generally the for beginners it is suggested 1" of fish per gallon. You count the adult lenght not the current lenght.

Also, as you have found. there are going to be aggresion problems in your tank with the fish you have. Many will get eaten as some of your monsters grow. The BGK is probably eyeing your angles, rams, and the other 1" fish.... Don't be too suprised if you turn on the lights one morning and some are missing.

DragonFish 06-23-2009 03:31 PM

Definitely agree with the above advice, though I'm not sure sure about the 1" per gallon rule, a lot more things should be taken into account then just size such as activity level and aggression. Especially in a beginners case.

Both Knife Fish will get much to big for your current tank and I believe require something along the lines of a 75+ gallon tank, not to mention they're aggressive. Also, two sharks shouldn't be kept in the same aquarium period, and they require 50+ gallons. Unless you plan to upgrade in the VERY near future, I'd take both back and if I were you definitely take both Knife Fish.
Rams also require very different conditions from what I have read and understand and are VERY sensitive to water parameters, not recommended for beginners or new aquariums. And two males will fight. I'd take them both back as well.
Also, what are your tank demotions? Angels need taller tanks as opposed to longer and if you don't end up with a pair.....well, come breeding age it'll be very bad. Even if you do have a pair the odd one out will get picked on and likely die. If you plan to upgrade to a 40-50 gallon at some point, I's keep just one Angel and take the others back.......unless your keen on babies. Then you should upgrade to a 55 gallon, see if any pair off, return the odd one out, and then prepare for many little Angels. If no upgrading but REALLY like your Angels....pick your favorite and return the other two, but plan for a home when your last one starts getting too big.
I don't know much about catfish, but it looks like all save for the clown pleco will get too large, so I'd return them too....
Now your practically starting over again fish-wise, but its for the best. If I were you I'd now go to the magic google machine and begin researching some smaller, more peaceful community fish. I'd probably go with a single centerpiece fish, something like a Dwarf gourami(permitted all three Angels go, if not this skip this)that max out at around 3"(love those guys and kept one per tank are usually very peaceful)and then a small school of some sort of tetra, 6-7 would do I think for a 30 gallon. And remember, research and don't listen to the people at pet stores. 9/10 times they're very wrong ;)
If you can't take your fish back, Craigslist is always an option. You can sell or give them away, but they should go.

I hope this helps, anyone is welcome to correct any info I've got wrong here xD

LOUIE ACES 06-23-2009 03:49 PM

thanks guys for the quick responses and i have a response for your very valuable info...

i was fully aware that the fish i purchased will get big. i do plan on upgrading to a 55 or ideally a 75 gallon tank around september. this is why i wasn't necessarily concerned of the size of the fish for right now. the mixture of types is more what i'm concerned about. everyone told me the blue rams were peaceful but it seems like they're the most aggressive fish i have (with the exception of the BGKF which i knew would eat the tetras but i was ok with it).

my albino has been with my angels since they were all introduced together and they never fought. but it does have its cat and mouse games with the redtail. i'm going to the pet store today to buy some more plants. i'm hoping this will give another territory for them to share to cut down on chasing.

i also have a 45 gallon hexagon tank with some cichlids in it so if the cats get too big for my other tank i'm going to let them possibly share that space or trade them in but they're way too small for me to even think about that now.

plus correct me if i'm wrong but if i have bottom feeders, they won't really bother with the middle and top feeders right? my whiptails are never in anyone's way and the striped raphael hides all day. the plecos suck on the glass and rocks all day...really i think all i have to worry about is the sharks, angels, rams, and ghosts....

DragonFish 06-23-2009 05:36 PM

Ahh, I see. Good to know you plan on upgrading, so then comes down to the mix as you are asking which isn't so great IMO. Blue Rams, from what I've heard, are peaceful but the males tend to get aggressive and territorial with one another and sometimes other tank mates. Never had them, but this is what I've heard. I'd still take them back though.

I'd still take back the BGKF as well if I were you and wouldn't put the cats in the 45 hex, not enough room for a large bottom dweller at all IMO. If you end up going for the 55, I would take back the Raphael if I were you. Thats quite a few bottom dwellers. If your going for the 75 then I think you'd probably be OK, but I still think that you have a few too many bottom dwellers.
When moving I'd probably leave the Clown Pleco in the 30 gallon, but thats just me.

No matter what, pick your fav of the two sharks and take the other one back. I did a lot of research on this back when I was thinking about getting one, two in any tank is a disaster waiting to happen. They're small now, but when they reach maturity there will be a lot more then just chasing. They are also likely to become aggressive towards your other bottom dwellers, hints why I say I think you may have a few to many. I wouldn't really worry too much about them with Angels though, as the Shark is more of a bottom level while an Angel is a topish dweller.

Most bottom feeders won't bother your other fish, there are a few that can get aggressive though apart from the Sharks, from my understanding, you should be okay aggression-wise. The big issue really I think is floor space and such.

Fishin Pole 06-23-2009 05:46 PM

the current tank they are in is just to small for even all the bottom feeders and thats if you get rid of the fish fore mentioned in earlier posts.......Its just a wrong combination of fish for the size tank and the species you are keeping...Adding plants wil be good for your water parameters, but its not gonna stop aggression in a 30 gallon.....you need to rehome ALOT of these fish or step up to a 100 or larger and waiting till September isnt gonna be an option....Some of these fish wont be around if you wait till September

Mikaila31 06-23-2009 05:48 PM

A 75 gal is the minimum for a BGK, that fish will get over a foot long.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOUIE ACES (Post 208072)
with the exception of the BGKF which i knew would eat the tetras but i was ok with it).

......:|

BTW how old is this tank and what are your water parameters. (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, ph, and temp)

LOUIE ACES 06-23-2009 10:16 PM

ammonia, nitrites, nitrates etc. are all healthy and under control; i do 20-25% water changes weekly religiously; stress coat and new tropical fish salt every water change. temp i keep at 80-82; i have a bubble wall to keep the water oxygenated; so from what everyone is telling me, if i had to get rid of a few, i would let the clown pleco go and the loricaria whiptail go. i can't see myself parting with the others...they really set a great diversity in the community. i really wanna believe you tell me this size tank won't last a few months but from my experience in the past 6 months of having these fish, they haven't grown dramatically. it might be just the life stage they're in but i really see them making it a few months with the size tank i have them in right now. will adding a bunch of new hiding places and rearranging the tank every week solve my aggression problem till i upgrade to the bigger tank?

DragonFish 06-23-2009 10:33 PM

I still stand by my previous advice and the advice of Fishin Pole and Mikaila31, up to you whether you want to follow it or not but your combo of fish just won't work. You've already witnessed some aggression, this will only escalate with time and you'll likely end up loosing most of these fish in the end, and probably a few before you get a chance to upgrade if you don't take action now.
Its computability you should be worried about, not dramatic fish growth within a few months time, and again its just not a very good combo. :/

Mikaila31 06-24-2009 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOUIE ACES (Post 208209)
ammonia, nitrites, nitrates etc. are all healthy and under control; i do 20-25% water changes weekly religiously; stress coat and new tropical fish salt every water change. temp i keep at 80-82; i have a bubble wall to keep the water oxygenated; so from what everyone is telling me, if i had to get rid of a few, i would let the clown pleco go and the loricaria whiptail go. i can't see myself parting with the others...they really set a great diversity in the community. i really wanna believe you tell me this size tank won't last a few months but from my experience in the past 6 months of having these fish, they haven't grown dramatically. it might be just the life stage they're in but i really see them making it a few months with the size tank i have them in right now. will adding a bunch of new hiding places and rearranging the tank every week solve my aggression problem till i upgrade to the bigger tank?

I'm just telling you how to keep your fish healthy and happy. It seems like you only want to keep them (and forgo proper care) because they make the tank look nice:|. A lot of your fish are young given there size. You do realize that in six months many of them should of grown quite a bit. For example, I bought a bunch of German blue rams at an auction about 6 months ago they were fry at .25", currently they are almost 1.75" long and have bred already. The fact that your fish are not growning shows something is wrong. Fish kept in tank that is too small or too crowded will not grow properly, it is called stunting. Stunting causes internal problems and stresses the fish, it shortens there lifespan a great deal and makes them susceptible to illness. You have semi-agressive fish. They NEED room. In such a small tank territories are going to be tight, so they will be constantly bickering and harassing each other. This adds more stress and a greater chance of disease. Sure they may live till you upgrade the tank, but they will have a shorter life to live out in it.

Also from the care you gave me (not much) there are a lot of things you need to change. First, what are water par., "healthy and under control" does not mean anything. What are they in PPM? Also STOP using the salt and do some more research on proper care, 1/2 the fish you have are sensitive to salt or should just not be kept with it. Turn the temp down, again compatibility comes into play. The plecos, cats, and knife should be kept 76-78 IMO. The rams and angles should be closer to 80-82.

As with dragonfish, I stand by what I previously said. Get rid of most of them, get a 75gal tank, then go buy some of the same species.


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