Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources

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-   Tropical Fish Diseases (http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/tropical-fish-diseases/)
-   -   Monster Ich! (http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/tropical-fish-diseases/monster-ich-20879/)

steelerfan 01-30-2009 09:23 PM

Monster Ich!
 
Has anyone heard of ich that remains in cyst form, on the fish, for over 7 days, without falling off?? The tank has been medicated for 7 days stright now, and the SAME cysts are still there. Almost all the fish are clear now, but these few originals won't fall off. I can't kill em till they fall off:evil:. Just wondered if anyone else had experienced this VERY long-lived strain.....

Lupin 01-30-2009 09:35 PM

Cysts are almost microscopic. What makes you think those are ich? If your temperature is high, then their life cycle should increase in speed rate and salt or meds will destroy the free swimming parasites. With ich, you're supposed to treat for 14 days. What is your temperature? What did you use to battle ich?

steelerfan 01-31-2009 05:40 PM

Well, I know ich when I see it, and typically the visible white spot portion of the life cycle only lasts 3-4 days, especially at 80 degrees. Just curious if anyone else has seen this strain that hangs on so long before dropping off.

Twistersmom 01-31-2009 06:05 PM

It could be just a scar from the ick. Does it still look like a grain of salt? I have found the heat treatment to be safer, and work faster than ick meds. At 82 deg., the ick just falls of fish. If you can bump the temperature up to 86 deg. it is said the ick can not live at this temperature. Leave it at 86 deg for a couple weeks and the ick should die off. Keep in mind that you do not want to raise to such high temperatures with medication in the water. High temperatures depreciate oxegen levels in the tank, so add extra air. Research the fish you have in the tank, so you know if they can handle the heat. Also, increase the heat a little at a time, no more than 1 deg. in 12 hrs. Hope you fish get better! Good luck!

Lupin 02-01-2009 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steelerfan (Post 167784)
Well, I know ich when I see it, and typically the visible white spot portion of the life cycle only lasts 3-4 days, especially at 80 degrees. Just curious if anyone else has seen this strain that hangs on so long before dropping off.

There is no such thing as "monster" ich. You are misdiagnosing the situation by calling the alleged cysts as part of the ich's lifecycle. How can you be sure the life cycle lasts only 3-4 days? Are you telling us this is also the time frame for ich treatment?

Lupin 02-01-2009 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twistersmom (Post 167786)
It could be just a scar from the ick. Does it still look like a grain of salt? I have found the heat treatment to be safer, and work faster than ick meds. At 82 deg., the ick just falls of fish. If you can bump the temperature up to 86 deg. it is said the ick can not live at this temperature. Leave it at 86 deg for a couple weeks and the ick should die off. Keep in mind that you do not want to raise to such high temperatures with medication in the water. High temperatures depreciate oxegen levels in the tank, so add extra air. Research the fish you have in the tank, so you know if they can handle the heat. Also, increase the heat a little at a time, no more than 1 deg. in 12 hrs. Hope you fish get better! Good luck!

Well said.;-)

syrinx 02-01-2009 10:00 AM

From this page, linked to by Lupin in the Ich stickied thread-

" In Oklahoma, university researchers studied a closely-related ciliate, identified as a "strain of Ich," in which the reproducing stage doesn't drop away but remains under the fishes' epidermis and releases the tomites from that secure position. This is a one-shot deal for the trophont, which dies in the process. The free-swimming tomites/theronts are still the only stage vulnerable to medication. In this close relation of Ich, the lesions are larger, looking like carp pox, flattened and waxy appearing"

Sounds like monster Ich to me.:-) But I think Twistersmom's explanation is much more likely.

In a minor Ich outbreak in one of my tanks recently, at 82 degrees the individual visible spots seldom lasted more then 24 hrs. If they are Ich spots, 7 days would be very unusual at tropical temps.

With fish being imported from all over the world and mutations happening constantly, its not inconcievable that the op encountered a strain of ich not commonly known in the hobby. That being said, I still think its unlikely.

steelerfan 02-02-2009 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lupin (Post 167879)
There is no such thing as "monster" ich. You are misdiagnosing the situation by calling the alleged cysts as part of the ich's lifecycle. How can you be sure the life cycle lasts only 3-4 days? Are you telling us this is also the time frame for ich treatment?

I know there's no such thing as monster ich, it was meant somewhat tongue in cheek. I never said the ich life cycle was 3-4 days, I said the visible presentation portion lasts 3-4 days, a fact I am quite sure of as I have done a fair amount of research on this parasite since I believe step one is to know your enemy. I am by no means claiming that ich treatment should only last 3-4 days. Treatment should continue for a couple days after the visible signs have disappeared. I only wondered if anyone else had experienced what I was describing. That is all. The infestation I'm speaking of has been treated successfully, with the loss of only 1 cardinal--not too bad. Thanks for the input everyone.


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