how do i end this amorous affair??
For the last couple of weeks I have been observing the most interesting event in my aquarium. There are four angel fish about one year old and I think that the middle two in size from the largest to the smallest are developing an amorous affair. One of the two angel fish assumes the role of antagonist while the other one acts as the protagonist and at times they switch roles and now appear to be protecting the water return element. Thinking about it now I remember these two always seemed to shoal extra close compared with the other two angel fish. I wonder if shoaling and growing up together is part of this process?
How do I stop the amorous intentions of the two lovers? I donít want to re-home them or purchase another tank. They do not bother the other two angel fish but have been having disagreements with the pearl gourami that also reside in the aquarium.
Is it possible to end this amorous relationship by raising or lowering water temperature or ph? What about changing water hardness or increasing the current so they canít lay eggs?
High tds levels have a negative effect on reproduction would this be advisable raising the level of dissolved solids?
Who would of thought this would happen, what bad luck
Its like cold coffee in the morning.
Yeah, they're probably mates. I'm not really sure you should have angels with gourami actually. The area of the tank they live in, and the whole territory issue, doesn't seem like a good match.
As for changing water chemistry, or water flow, i've been doing BOTH and my angelfish pair are still consistently spawning every 1-2 weeks. If they're not bothering the other angels, I'd say you're fine (depending on tank size). But like I said about the gourami, that does not seem like a good match.
eta: yep, double checking the Scalare Angelfish profile, you read this in the "tank mate" section:
"Not suitable with anabantids (gourami, betta)"
I'd pick one type of fish and stick with it :/
I was hoping for some better results, they spawning every one or two weeks (donít they ever get tired). Will this behavior have an adverse affect on water quality by increasing protein or sugars? I guess the amorous relationship will last for their life span. Do I need to acquire more angelfish so the two other angelfish will be able to shoal?
I have read the profiles you are pointing to and havenít experienced any trouble (fighting) between the angelfish and gouramis they tend to avoid each other most of the time.
Thanks for taking the time to help.
You sound well versed on water and properties, as well as fish and instincts/behaviour...why not grab a 39 gallon corner tank and let these two have a school of of angels!
Pop, I'd be tempted to leave things as they are unless real behavioral issues erupt. Partial water changes would probably keep water quality concerns in check. My answer takes into account the fact that you are not interested in getting another tank.
I don't think you need to get more for the others to shoal. that might even cause more problems since the original four have already been in there so long.i don't know if increasing proteins or sugars will do anything. might inspire them to spawn more if its in the form of food!
i can't make you remove fish. i wish you luck with the combination and hope no one gets hurt.
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Hello Captian Jim Dandy:
You give me too much credit I know very little about all of this and what I know is mostly a guess. I have a 50 or so gallon corner aquarium and my wife will not allow me to steal another corner. Thanks for the suggestion. Pop
Hello fish monger:
I agree with you that water changes are important and I try to change the water about every ten days or so. I also reduced the amount of food given in hopes of improving water quality. Thanks for the advice Pop
What you are saying makes good sense about shoaling.
I mis-said what I was thinking I was not suggesting adding protein or sugars to the water column I was considering the laid eggs as the source of added protein and the fertilizing DNA as the source for increased sugars. I read some where protein and sugars inhibit oxygen / carbon dioxide diffusion into / out of the water column.
I understand you are a compassionate person and that you care a lot. I hope I can put you concern to rest by telling you I pay very close attention to the activities in the aquarium and observe the fish several hours each day. I pay especial attention for overt signs of aggression. If I notice a problem I promise I will remove the offending critter. My tank is slightly over 50 gallons containing 10 fish not counting the 5 cory catfish and one sucker fish.
Thanks to all for the advice.
not well versed in angels personally but ive read on various forums that bredding pairs can become nasty towards other angels and other fish. sounds like they gre up together being a shoal of 3. 2 paired off and are now shunning the third. that's nature at work if you ask me, if you not seeing the 2 be aggressive towards anyone cept the other angel then in fact more angels (might) solve the problem or intensify it.
If the angels are a pair then the only way to prevent breeding would be to give them conditions that they are not comfortable breeding in (IE: Lowering the temperature to 75-76). This will not necessarily stop the breeding either, they can continue breeding in modified conditions regardless.
Angelfish that spawn are not necessarily going to produce fry, the female will spawn and if the conditions are not suited to their liking, they will either eat the eggs or the male will not fertilize them. Any changes in their environment could prevent breeding for x amount of time, but since they are a pair, it is most certain they will continue breeding again at some point. It is very common and well documented that they are very aggressive during "spawn mode" and can and sometimes will injure fish that pose a threat to the spawn, regardless of their intent to actually keep the spawn.
If you are seeing no signs of aggression towards the other fish in the aquarium then I would continue watching just to make sure (you seem to have that down pat already), as Angelfish can (and usually are) very aggressive during mating periods. They will spawn every few weeks and as I described above, the only way to stop this would be to make drastic changes to their environment and this will not necessarily work (nor do I recommend doing so, as it puts unwanted stress on the pair as well as other tank mates).
If one is being overly aggressive towards the other than I can only recommend you add additional hiding places for the one that is being picked on.
I will not go in to the angelfish<->gourami portion of this thread as I do no have any desire to tell you what to do with your fish, if things are going as you want, then I say god speed and good luck ;-)
Good morning MoneyMitch:
Itís good to hear from you, there are four angelfish in the tank and all tank mates have grown up together and I havenít seen any overt aggression towards the other two angelfish though the two pairing seem to have domestic issues.
Thank you for taking the time to help me out. Pop
I was wondering if lower the temperature would affect the angelfishís behavior.
I have observed some of the behavior you are suggesting during spawning though it appeared that the paired angels were defending an area not attacking other fish as long as they stayed away from the protected area.
Jesse James and the gourmi gang are not in conflict with the angels and avoids them.
The pearlís maybe more friendly than other more hostile gourmiís.
Thank you for the valuable information and concern. pop
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