Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources

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-   -   Troublesome Ram (http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/cichlids/troublesome-ram-13564/)

DragonGoby 04-06-2008 02:34 PM

Troublesome Ram
 
Hello,

Usually a coldwater tank person, but when my last tank was done I had a break then decided on doing my first tropical tank.
Is a 22g tank, stocked with 13 fish. None of the fish are fully grown.
(2x Rams, 2x Clown Loach, 3x Angelfish, 5x Neon Tetra, 1x Dragon Goby)

They have all got along fine until last night, when my 2 rams started to fight. I know that one of them is a male and the other i think is a female (as is smaller, paler and has no raised 2nd point on dorsal fin).
I dont want to get rid of him, but the male has damaged her side fin. Does anyone know whether this is going to carry on, or whether it is a temporary breeding thing? (if so, how long is it likely to last). I dont want to loose both of them.

female? :
http://www.fishforum.com/userpix/6619_b_1.jpg

male :
http://www.fishforum.com/userpix/6619_c_1.jpg

I have added more hiding places, but he is still very feisty.
If there is no solution, is there anyone in the southeast, uk, who might give him a nice home?

Cody 04-06-2008 06:00 PM

Could you post your water params? How long have you had your rams?

It may be a temporary breeding thing, but it may not. My Kribs show this behaivor sometimes, and it may be similar.

Also, to avoid future problems, you are overstocked. The Angles will reach 10" tall and 6" long, while the Clown loaches should be in groups of 3+ and can reach 12-16" long. The Neons will also be food to the Angels when they mature.

Holly 04-06-2008 08:50 PM

Rearrange the tank and take some of the fish out since your overstocked. The tank is much too small for the angels and the clown loaches that will grow very large, quickly. I think the aggression will go down once that's completed.

DragonGoby 04-07-2008 12:14 PM

I have had the rams for two weeks with no problems.
The tank has been running for just over a month. I could not give you the last test figures off the top of my head. I know that the nitrate and nitrite levels are quite high and i have been doing a 25-30% water change everyother day. This has eliminated the ammonia problem and the nitrate and nitrites are comng down slowly. I am topping up with bacteria booster each water change.
I was thinking of getting another tank eventually, so Im not worried about them outgrowing the space too much. He is not really picking on the others, just the other ram.
I did rearrange the ornaments, but he only calmed down a little.
If it is a breeding thing, how long would that normally last for?

Cody 04-07-2008 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragonGoby
I have had the rams for two weeks with no problems.
The tank has been running for just over a month. I could not give you the last test figures off the top of my head. I know that the nitrate and nitrite levels are quite high and i have been doing a 25-30% water change everyother day. This has eliminated the ammonia problem and the nitrate and nitrites are comng down slowly. I am topping up with bacteria booster each water change.
I was thinking of getting another tank eventually, so Im not worried about them outgrowing the space too much. He is not really picking on the others, just the other ram.
I did rearrange the ornaments, but he only calmed down a little.
If it is a breeding thing, how long would that normally last for?

The water hardness will help. The 'trites may be a problem.

But, you need to get the Angels and Loaches out. He may feel crowded, and is taking it out on the Ram because he needs more room.

My krib was showing this behaivor for at least 2 weeks, and is just now letting up.

1077 04-21-2008 05:54 AM

My own expieriences with rams have shown that their is a pecking order among them . If the female shows no interest in the male they will often pester the female to death, I have also found that the product TETRA BLACKWATER EXTRACT some times helps promote breeding along with soothing them. They usually are more bluff than fight except when spawning. The females belly will turn almost rose pink at this time and when she is close, the pair will begin cleaning off a smooth rock or piece of wood to lay the eggs . It could be possible that the female had already paired off with another male and that the male you selected was not him. Once they form a pair, they show little interest in another. You may wish to get a 10 gal. tank or plastic tub with a heater and small filter and separate the male for a while. :P

DragonGoby 04-21-2008 10:25 AM

Thank you for the help.
I think as 1077 said, it is a mating thing. She is just not interested.
He's calmed down a bit, tho is more feisty when his colours are brighter.
She seems to get chased a bit, but stays out of his way. Her fin has heeled up which is good.
Have tried a ph buffer to get the hardness and ph back nearer 7, but is very alkaline and hard - lots of calcium deposit on use.
Am eventually going to get another tank. Just got to get this one established first, then i'll spread the fish out between the two.
Will prob leave the female in the current tank and put the male in the new tank (which will be bigger).
Has`helped to add in more ornaments - gives more places for her to hide.

This is all assuming "she" is female.. anyone got any idea based on the above pics?

1077 04-21-2008 10:54 AM

The top photo indicates a female . Bottom photo is male. In the female irredecent spots (blue) will be found inside black spot on side of fish along with the purple to pink belley. The male as some have noted will have longer second dorsal ray and irredecent spots will be found outside the black spot on their sides. P>S> they love brine shrimp but should not receive steady diet of it. Best to offer variety.

herefishy 04-21-2008 06:37 PM

Juvenile fish may be kept in smaller tanks. Some of these posters must not realize that when you purchase fish, like angels, very rarely do you buy adults. Having smaller tanks is ok as long as you realize that, in the future, you will need to upgrade to larger tanks for these fish. I think that many use the adult size as a gauge. I do think that some conservatism is needed when stocking a tank with juvies, but not to the extreme as many others do.

Rams are cichlids, in case any forgot to realize thet fact. They are inherently territorial and can be very vicious in establishing and defending their territory. Rearranging the tank will help to confuse them but it may only delay the inevitable, too.

1077 04-22-2008 04:27 AM

In my expierience with rams, like Angel fish, and discus, also cichlids they are only territorial when spawning. Rams are for the most part peaceful fish suitable for just about any community aquarium. I currently have a pair of gold rams with eggs and theyDo become quite aggressive when another comes near the nest. Other than that they interact with their tankmates and are very curious about anything in or near the tank. I have raised many but sadly, they are not a long lived fish. and for that I am frustrated .for they are truly a beautiful fish with outstanding personalities. They are a demanding fish in so much as water quality is concerned however and are probably not suited for less than expierienced hobbyists.


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