Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources

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-   -   Von Rio (Flame) Tetra dying with no apparent cause (http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/tropical-fish-diseases/von-rio-flame-tetra-dying-no-131012/)

Ogre44 03-07-2013 03:21 PM

Von Rio (Flame) Tetra dying with no apparent cause
 
1. Size of tank? 10 Gallon Quarantine

2. Water parameters
a. Ammonia? 0
b. Nitrite? 0
c. Nitrate? 5-10
d. pH, KH and GH? Low Range PH 7.6, High Range PH 7.4
e. Test kit? API Freshwater Master

3. Temperature? was 78, now 84

4. FW (fresh water) or BW (brackish)? Fresh Water

5. How long the aquarium has been set up? 6-8 Weeks

6. What fish do you have? How many are in your tank? How big are they? How long have you had them?
These are Von Rio or Flame Tetra.
I initially got 6, then 8 more to add to my 65 Gallon tank.
I got the first batch of 6 on Sunday 3-3-13 and the second batch of 8 Tuesday 3-5-13
7. Were the fish placed under quarantine period (minus the first batch from the point wherein the tank is ready to accommodate the inhabitants)?
This is the second group of fish in the quarantine tank, after a Dwarf Gourami

8. a. Any live plants? Fake plants? Lots of live plants, 4 swords, lots of Water Sprite both planted and floating, floating Hornwort, Water Wisteria, Java Moss, Java Fern
b. Sand, gravel, barebottom? Playsand
c. Rocks, woods, fancy decors? Any hollow decors? a few rocks that came in with some plants in the little plastic baskets

9. a. Filtration? yes
b. Heater? yes

10. a. Lighting schedule? What lights are used? Phillips Aquarium and Plant Light, being kept off right now
b. Any sunlight exposure? How long? Not really

11. a. Water change schedule? Once a week
b. Volume of water changed? 33%
c. Well water, tap water, RO water? Conditioned Tap
d. Water conditioner used? Aqueon
e. Frequency of gravel/sand (if any) vacuumed? Every Week

12. Foods? pellets, flakes
How often are they fed? once per day

13. a. Any abnormal signs/symptoms? The only symptom was on one fish who was laying on his side an breathing hard. When disturbed it would right itself a swim normally for a few minutes before slowly spiraling down to gasp on the bottom again. It got up and ate when food was introduced
b. Appearance of poop? lots, dark brown
c. Appearance of gills? pink

14. a. Have you treated your fish ahead of diagnosis? A couple seemed to have ich so I treated for that
b. What meds were used? 2 Tablespoons Aquarium salt and temp raised to 84 degrees

On Sunday I elected to remove a dwarf Gourami from quarantine after 3 weeks and add him to his display tank.
I went to my LFS to get the Von Rio (Flame) tetra I wanted for my new 65 gallon tank, they only had 6 so I got them and ordered 7 more.
When I got home (They were in an insulated lunch bag) I removed the Gourami and began acclimating him in the display and began acclimating the tetra. I used my standard method of floating the bag and adding tank water every 10 minutes for a half hour or so. Both acclimations seemed to go well.
That evening all 6 of the tetra ate, but 1 of them seemed a little "hidey" but I though that was due to one more aggressive fish letting it be known that he was going to be the king tetra.
The next morning (Monday) one of the tetras was dead, I put it down to stress and aggression, called the LFS and upped my order to 8 fish.
Monday evening all the fish seemed fine, the smallest one was hiding by the heater, but I again assumed aggression and was hoping the forthcoming fish would provide stress relief.
Tuesday morning all seemed well, I got a call during the day that my fish were in so I stopped by after work and picked them up.
When I got home 2 more of the original 6 were dead. At this point I SHOULD have taken the 8 new ones back to the store and told them what was going on, but I still had stress and aggression on the brain so I put the new fish in with the originals.
Wednesday morning a fourth fish was dead.
Wednesday evening a fifth looked dead. When I went to scoop him out he righted himself and swam away. He ate when I added some food to the tank. But he kept spiraling down to the floor of the tank and lying there so I euthanised him.
I noticed that a couple of the fish appeared to have ich, so I added 2 tablespoons of Aquarium Salt and upped the temperature to 84.
Thursday morning an 6th fish was dead. I hoped that these were all the original 6 and that perhaps it was some environmental factor and not disease but when I got home from work 2 more were dead for a total of 8 casualties thus far.
I am at a loss, no symptoms that I can detect, just deaths.
I am horrified and saddened at this and am truly at a loss as to what to do, any and all suggestions would be appreciated.

MoneyMitch 03-07-2013 03:51 PM

how long of a trip did they make? shipping is hard on some fish, most fish. so they got put into a tank at the store im guessing? then netted when u picked them up and baged again then droive to ur home. then floated and put inot a establiushged tank. with them showing no other sighns other then hiding and swirl typoe swimming and laying at the bottom only 2 things pop up. some type of swimbladder infection or just very very high stress. but now your other fish have ich and the dead tetras did not?

Ogre44 03-07-2013 04:31 PM

The ride home from the store is about 10 minutes, if i hit all the red lights.
The original 6 had been in the store for a week or so when I picked them up.
The owner of the shop drives about 45 minutes to his distributor to pick up his fish, They are then acclimated at the store.
Some of the Tetra came down with ich, of which I currently see no signs, but as they are the only fish in the tank no other fish were affected.
Other than the fish being pale they seem to behave pretty normally, at least from my limited experience with Tetra anyway.

Olympia 03-07-2013 04:41 PM

Do you know how long the fish were at the store?
At this point it may seem the error is in the store/supplier. You don't seem to be doing anything wrong that I can see.
I would explain to the store owner what is happening/everything you have done, maybe they will look into it more... You may want to try a different store however. o.O

MoneyMitch 03-07-2013 04:44 PM

You said some of the tetras ce down with ich and none of it other fish have it the new fish coming down with ich is possibly from the stress especially of it main tank never showed any sighs I'm with the person that said talk to the store and explain the situation as this appears that the deaths were not from your handling or tank
Posted via Mobile Device

Ogre44 03-07-2013 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olympia (Post 1458771)
Do you know how long the fish were at the store?
At this point it may seem the error is in the store/supplier. You don't seem to be doing anything wrong that I can see.
I would explain to the store owner what is happening/everything you have done, maybe they will look into it more... You may want to try a different store however. o.O

I did.
There are 2 owners, whom I think of as the "Good" owner and the "Lousy" owner.
Unfortunately it was the lousy one today.
His most helpful suggestion was that I buy some Ich-Guard, the least helpful was "yeah, tetras are usually really hardy fish, I don't know what happened."
I spend almost all of my fish money at this store, for Christmas I had folks buy me Gift Certificates here and have been using them to stock my new tank.
This weekend I intend to spend the rest of my certificates on drygoods, cash in all my member points, and leave.
But this is a different issue.

Sitting here waiting for these fish to die is really bumming me out, because at this point I'm pretty sure it's a foregone conclusion that they are all dead and I'm going to have to hit my quarantine tank with boiling bleach or something.

MoneyMitch 03-07-2013 05:00 PM

most stores have some sort of gurantee like 2-3 weeks or moeny back, maybe bring that up?

Ogre44 03-07-2013 05:51 PM

Another fish died.
The other 5 are swimming around like torpedoes eating everything I just put in the tank.

nicolaas 03-08-2013 06:02 AM

I think it might be the salt as tetras are sensitive to salt.
But I had flame tetras myself and the same thing happened to me, fine one day and dead the next.
Feed them high protein food,as they are micro predators.

Try to do a big water change and don't ad salt.





Nicolaas.

Ogre44 03-08-2013 03:33 PM

The salt was added to combat ich, they were dying prior to the salt being introduced to the tank.
2 more died while I was at work today, 3 left.


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