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-   -   How much media? (http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/beginner-freshwater-aquarium/how-much-media-130069/)

bradleyheathhays 02-26-2013 11:28 AM

How much media?
 
Feeling like I should have been able to find this listed somewhere in the lit but so far I haven't. I've got two new Eheim 2078s which I think are also referred to as 700s and I'm trying to determine how much of the Mech and Substrat Eheim media I need to get for them. The manuals show the bottom tray to be filled with Mech and the other three to be filled with Substrat. Found a deal for 5 liters of mech for 80 bucks which seems like a good deal when compared to the by the liter price, and if I'll eventually use it then seems worth it. But if 5 liters is way too much then I'd rather save the money.

Any advice?

JDM 02-26-2013 12:08 PM

They should come with the filter media if you bought them new.

If not, go with foam, course, medium fine and floss to create a graduated filter bed. Bio-something, if you need it, on top with a fine final scrubber layer.

Everything except the bio crap is to remove particulate of various sizes so foam of various sizes works just as well as expensive options.

Cleans easily, re-useable for some time and cheaply replaced as needed.

Jeff.

AbbeysDad 02-26-2013 02:56 PM

Frankly, I wouldn't bother with the hard ceramic rings that Eheim recommends in the first stage (I think they're the only ones that do). This is just a really course material to trap large particles. In theory, this will allow finer media to last longer by not plugging as quickly. But with decomposition and [water flow] erosion, these particles are going to make the trip.
Anyway, in that first stage I would simply use coarse sponge material (as previously mentioned) OR (and here's a thought) go to a dollar store and get some nylon pot scrubbers and pack as many in as will fit. Then in the next stage go with sponge, followed by some bio-media like bio-max or Matrix/De*nitrate, then in the last stage some [filter floss] polyester fiber (Walmart in the crafts section used to stuff pillows) as this will 'polish' the water just before returning to the tank. Overall this will provide excellent filtration at a much lower cost....and with the exception of the inexpensive polyester fiber, will last nearly forever.

JDM 02-26-2013 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbbeysDad (Post 1446233)
...(and here's a thought) go to a dollar store and get some nylon pot scrubbers and pack as many in as will fit....

Well, there's a cool idea. I have empty trays in my filter, might as well have something in there.

The trays themselves have narrow slots that already serve to trap larger (plant leaves) matter in the bottom sump area of the filter canister.

Jeff.

AbbeysDad 02-26-2013 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDM (Post 1446375)
Well, there's a cool idea. I have empty trays in my filter, might as well have something in there.

The trays themselves have narrow slots that already serve to trap larger (plant leaves) matter in the bottom sump area of the filter canister.

Jeff.

Actually a 'stolen' (er borrowed) idea. I picked up somewhere that several fish keepers with sumps were using inexpensive nylon pot scrubbers in sumps for wet/dry instead of much more expensive bio-balls. It just seems to me that they would work equally well trapping larger particles as the smooth surface ceramic rings do.
I've found similar advantages in the polyester fiber (Wallymart) and dollar store versions of scotch brite pads.

MoneyMitch 02-26-2013 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDM (Post 1446375)
Well, there's a cool idea. I have empty trays in my filter, might as well have something in there.

The trays themselves have narrow slots that already serve to trap larger (plant leaves) matter in the bottom sump area of the filter canister.

Jeff.

u mentiuon the nylon pot scrubbers, ive heard of some of them having a anti bacterail coating or something on them since they sit around in a drawer or on the sink edge when not in use. think it was in some diy sump article i read a while back cause if you get the sponges espcially they have a damp feeling to them safe to assume thats the antibacterial whatever?

AbbeysDad 02-26-2013 05:02 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by MoneyMitch (Post 1446399)
u mentiuon the nylon pot scrubbers, ive heard of some of them having a anti bacterail coating or something on them since they sit around in a drawer or on the sink edge when not in use. think it was in some diy sump article i read a while back cause if you get the sponges espcially they have a damp feeling to them safe to assume thats the antibacterial whatever?

I was speaking of NYLON (hard plastic) pot scrubbers - I'm sure there is no coating applied or that would stay attached.

Attachment 78356

MoneyMitch 02-26-2013 05:04 PM

ahhhh makes sense you say nylon i think nylon stockings haha diffrent nylons apoparently

JDM 02-26-2013 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbbeysDad (Post 1446392)
...It just seems to me that they would work equally well trapping larger particles as the smooth surface ceramic rings do....

The idea behind the ceramic rings as a "bio-media" is that the porosity of ceramic material allows a very large internal surface area for the growth of nitrifying bacteria. The problem is that it is mostly a gimmick, marketing. Some will argue against this but in order to take advantage of the internal surface area the water must pass through the ceramic material... not around it. This won't happen when the rings are just piled as the water will go around the ceramics, (path of least resistance). A closed ceramic tube with pressurized water flow would do it but that is not happening in any regular canister system.

So the ceramics are a waste of space... they don't actually filter anything that gets through the filter tray screening. A course sponge has more useable internal surface area as the water can be forced through it at the very low pressures we use in a canister filtration system.

If you have a planted tank, even if they did work, they wouldn't be needed anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoneyMitch (Post 1446399)
u mentiuon the nylon pot scrubbers, ive heard of some of them having a anti bacterail coating or something on them since they sit around in a drawer or on the sink edge when not in use. think it was in some diy sump article i read a while back cause if you get the sponges espcially they have a damp feeling to them safe to assume thats the antibacterial whatever?

The dollar store ones won't be treated... but some scubbers are, usually the sponge ones. I buy cheap ones in a four pack for the kitchen, green, yellow, red and blue I think. An elastic band holds it in shape, pretty cheap.

Oh, AD posted a pic.

Jeff.

AbbeysDad 02-26-2013 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDM (Post 1446443)
The idea behind the ceramic rings as a "bio-media" is that the porosity of ceramic material allows a very large internal surface area for the growth of nitrifying bacteria. The problem is that it is mostly a gimmick, marketing. Some will argue against this but in order to take advantage of the internal surface area the water must pass through the ceramic material... not around it. This won't happen when the rings are just piled as the water will go around the ceramics, (path of least resistance). A closed ceramic tube with pressurized water flow would do it but that is not happening in any regular canister system.

No, EFMech (I think that's what they call it) used in the first filter stage is a smooth ceramic ring used as mechanical filtration media and should not be confused with porous ceramic bio-media.

And just a further correction is that the porous bio-media used after mechanical and optional chemical media does not really require water to flow through the pores. Much like live rock in SW, the material cavities (pores) allows for the proliferation of beneficial bacteria that would simply not exist in a smooth surface media. It's not a gimmick.
However, there may be some room to debate the overal effectiveness of say ceramic bio-media and a basic open cell foam as both would provide significant surface areas to support BB colony(ies).


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