Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources

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-   -   Water Softener Question (http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/beginner-freshwater-aquarium/water-softener-question-118322/)

maxw47 10-29-2012 06:39 PM

Water Softener Question
 
I've got a question on water chemistry that has been bugging me for a while now. So at my house, we have well water. So the water is very hard. We have a water softener that uses salt that all of the water goes through. I might be wrong, and if so somebody please correct me, but I think this is how it works. Hard water runs through the water softener, sodium ions get attached to all of the minerals (through some complicated process), which makes the minerals, metals, etc. "null". When I test the gh, it comes up as 0. I have always turned a valve so the water bypasses the softener, taken a shower, and done a water change. The result was a gh of around 7 (the natural hard water is 11). The pH is always 8.2. This has worked well for almost a year now. I have only kept/bred platies, a hardy fish. But i want to get into some tougher stuff. So I was thinking of using RO mixed with equilibrium (RO suppliment). But could I just mix equilibrium with the softened water, and treat it like RO? Because the minerals and such are all null. Would the salt effect anything? Would the pH be too high? I hope somebody can answer all of this for me. Thanks!

Quantum 10-29-2012 09:35 PM

hardness describes the amount of Ca and Mg present in the water and this is what the tests measure

in the type of softeners you describe, sodium cations from the salt (NaCl) are exchanged for the Ca and Mg in the water, as a result the water will test as being soft, but chemically it is quite different from most natural fresh water (where usually Ca>Mg>Na) and is not at equivalent to RO, which has very little dissolved solids at all

the best thing to do would be to use tap before it passes through the softener and dilute it with RO or distilled to get to the desired level of hardness

maxw47 10-29-2012 09:52 PM

Is the exchanged minerals (sodium) bad for the fish or plants at all? If not, then couldn't you just add RO suppliment on top of everything so that the minerals can be used. Or should I just add Ca and Mg?

AbbeysDad 10-29-2012 10:43 PM

You should not use water from a softener that uses salt. This article that Byron wrote may be helpful:

http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/f...quarium-73276/

Quantum 11-01-2012 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxw47 (Post 1291899)
Is the exchanged minerals (sodium) bad for the fish or plants at all? If not, then couldn't you just add RO suppliment on top of everything so that the minerals can be used. Or should I just add Ca and Mg?

why would you want to remove Ca and Mg by exchanging it with Na (unatural) just to add Ca and Mg back with supplements?

soft water will generally not just be low in Ca and Mg, but in all dissolved solids, so fish that have evolved in such conditions will struggle in water with high levels of TDS, some are more adaptable than others, but most natural fresh water is low (relatively) in Na

in addition to the article linked above, I think Byron has also written one regarding salt in freshwater aquariums

maxw47 11-01-2012 09:46 PM

Well, if I could I would totally exclude the softener all together. But, that is not really feasable because the water softened water needs to be there for the rest of the house (according to my parents), so there isn't a convenient way to exclude it. So I was trying to figure out how to make the softened water work the best for my fish. At this point, I think I'm just going to use RO water (mixed with equilibrium). More expensive, but I guess it's the best option, am I right?

AbbeysDad 11-02-2012 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxw47 (Post 1295337)
Well, if I could I would totally exclude the softener all together. But, that is not really feasable because the water softened water needs to be there for the rest of the house (according to my parents), so there isn't a convenient way to exclude it. So I was trying to figure out how to make the softened water work the best for my fish. At this point, I think I'm just going to use RO water (mixed with equilibrium). More expensive, but I guess it's the best option, am I right?

Nearly all water softener installations do not plumb softened water to outside (hose) spigots and all should have a hose bib before the softener in the basement. You just need a hose to hook up to the water supply before the softener.

You 'can' use RO, RO/DI, or DI water, but in addition to a supplement for minerals like Equilibrium or Replenish, you'll also need to adjust for pH. Considering the combined cost, I'd sure explore getting water before the softener first.

maxw47 11-02-2012 04:50 PM

Good suggestion. I'd heard that elsewhere, but when I asked my dad he said that ours wasn't. But, he didn't seem very sure of his answer. I'll look for a spigot inside the house and I'll test the water at the spigots outside.


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