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carrgirl 11-01-2006 07:55 PM

Stocking tank need advice
 
I have a 30 gal planted tank. It currently holds;

-2 Flying fox :-( nice fish but i was hoping for simease flying fox when i got these two.
- 1 (female?) 3 year old bushy nose pleco
- 1 white cloud mountian minnow ... a unwanted fish given to me by friend when rest of the school passed on ... this little guy isn't going so well i think ... nice colors bright reds since being in my tank, but he has a crurved spine that isn't going away.

Other then the bushy nose i don't care for the community of fish i have too much :-( I would like to get some new fish maybe trade a flying fox for a simease one? does that ever happen? I'd also like some a new more colorful fish community. Here are my goals (below in list form), what are your suggestions;

- I would like a school of small fish (i like bloodfin ... but can they be bred in the communtiy tank? to keep themselves stocked).
- a larger fish for top or mid water ... (i kinda like the freshwater shark types ... like the red tail black shark who won't out grow my tank ... oh if i had a larger tank id go for the bala or something.)
- a breeding fish pair or school ... a fish that will have babies and mate in a community setting. (would bloodfin do this? what about a dwarf gourami or betta pair? would they do this with a school of other fish and a larger tank mate?
-Some red, some blue, and some yellow in the fish. like chichd or qwarf gourami pair.

These are my ideas ... now thinking like this what are some of my options?

Lupin 11-01-2006 10:20 PM

Hi and welcome aboard.:wave:

I wouldn't keep more than 1 flying fox. Nor would I do with SAEs. They are quite aggressive among themselves and a large tank with lots of hiding places will require you if you want to keep more than 1.

All tetras may have a chance to spawn but survival rate of eggs is extremely slim. Tetra eggs are known to be sensitive to light. Not to mention some bottom dwellers sifting the subtrate and other decors until they can eat all the eggs.:wink2:

Dwarf gouramis will need to be isolated when they spawn if you want the fry to survive. A lot of fry will never survive in a community. I would let nature take its course unless you are really serious in breeding specific kinds of fish. Unless you do, you'll need several tanks for rearing and breeding purposes.

As for labeos(sharks), I am opposed to keeping them in a 30 gallons tank. They are very aggressive and some can reach 5 inches and will eventually harass your fish. Bala sharks are not an option either. You'll need to keep them in shoals as they are very skittish thus prone to accidents or injuries. A shoal alone will require you a 150 gallons tank as they can reach 12 inches in time.

In a 30 gallons tank, you are not expected to keep fish that grow quite large other than fish that grow to 4 inches max.
I would recommend apistogrammas as your best choice of cichlids. Do more research on them. Some are quite delicate and will require 6 months tank maturation. Bolivian rams would be a good option. If you want blue rams(Microgeophagus ramirezi), consider tank maturation by about 6 months. They are quite sensitive to nitrites.
I wouldn't go for kribensis(Pelvicachromis pulcher). They get extremely aggressive during spawning time and will eventually attack your other fish in the attempts to save their fry.

As for bettas, I'd keep the male betta alone in a 5 gallons tank. 10 gallons would be even better for more space. I wouldn't, however, keep a female together with a male in one tank. Males are known to harass even the females and you don't want to see him harassing his mate to death.

If you want shoaling fish, I'd recommend you to start with robust and peaceful species. You can go over harlequin rasboras, diamond tetras, lemon tetras and beacon tetras.

For more bottom dwellers, you can't go wrong keeping kuhli loaches or corydoras.

Good luck.:)

bettababy 11-02-2006 03:38 AM

Good job Blue... what he said...<giggles>
And, I'll add that the red tail and rainbow sharks tend to reach 6 - 8 inches, and are very aggressive and territorial. I would never do this in anything less than a 55 gallon tank with a few other larger, fiesty fish. These sharks also tend to spend a lot of time hiding, they are bottom dwelling and nocturnal feeders.
Agreed with Blue, no bettas in a community tank, that's asking for problems... and never a male/female pair together longer than the actual spawning. Dwarf gouramis are a good choice, but please be forewarned, it's difficult to find a female, and the females have almost no color to them at all. This is the reason they are not typically stocked, as they don't tend to sell well. Not a very "pretty" fish to most people.
If you want a lot of color, try a few male cherry barbs, they could cycle the tank for you, then work with male odessa barbs. You'll get bright reds and yellows this way, and the fish will all get along and not get overly large, but large enough to enjoy them.
Another option, and not compatible with barbs would be the dwarf cichlids that Blue mentioned. In a 30 gallon tank I wouldn't add more than 6 fish total, especially if you pair them, and expect A LOT of fry, as they tend to be good parents. With this in mind, you'll want to have another large tank standing by to house the many fry you'll find yourself with quick enough. A lot of pet stores will only trade, not buy fish, and this will depend on how much space they have and what their current market is for that kind of fish. I wouldn't add kuhli loaches if doing dwarf cichlids, and be forewarned that most dwarf cichlids require softer water and warmer temps. If you want "easy", I'd stick to the smaller species of barbs, those known to be less aggressive. With the barbs, if floating plants are provided for shelter and not too many less aggressive barbs (4 cherry barbs and 4 odessa barbs) then you could add a male dwarf gourami.
Be careful not to add all of the fish at once, and make sure the tank is heavily decorated for territory and hiding places.
And, also as Blue mentioned, 1 flying fox, I wouldn't mix the 2 species, nor would I keep 2 of either in that size of a tank long term.
Trying to spawn tetras in a community tank is almost impossible, I wouldn't even suggest trying it. Something like that takes a large tank with a lot of the same kind of fish, and seperation once the eggs are laid. Not all fish are good parents.
The barbs and dwarf gourami give you red, yellow, and blue and not overly aggressive... will that work?
Mystery snails are fun, and would work with the barbs/gourami mix, also. They're great for eating algae and waste in the tank and can get quite large. One of those with some cory catfish, or even a botia loach would work well.

carrgirl 11-02-2006 09:36 PM

More on this tank
 
Hey guys ... i have no choice on some of these fish. I think you misunderstood.

I already have a cycled tank ... it already has the bushy nose pleco, and two flying fox. The foxs don't seem to mind each other and usually swim together? I have not seen time act agressive towards each other any time. They don't even chase each other. Some times they will rest together on a plant leaf too.

Actually, i was hoping to add fish to this set up ... and my goals were as posted. I'm not looking to breed fish so much ... more like get a occational single baby here and there, the rest can eggs or fry i think would make a nice live food for whatever will eat it?

What do you say?

Lupin 11-02-2006 10:08 PM

I would only assume your flying fox are maybe young. Young ones don't tend to fight but as they grow older, they tend to become aggressive against each other.

Livebearers will often breed a lot but you will need tetras to eliminate all the fry as livebearers tend to produce a lot that overcrowded conditions becomes an issue.

Danios and cherry barbs are one of the easiest cyprinids to breed. They are egg layers and only a few eggs mya survivie provided you have thickets of plants. Cabombas are often used by cherry barbs to deposit their eggs. Danios are egg scatterers and will spread the eggs all over the place hence the word "scatterer".:wink2:

I'd forget getting any of the anabantids(dwarf gourami and bettas). Either of them is a recipe for disasters. Male dwarf gouramis IME tend to become aggressive once they establish territories on the surface level. Even without the females, both species get aggressive. Believe me, there are times you may get a docile male but you will be unlucky if the fish you got is very aggressive. I'd avoid both species unless you have other tanks for them.

bettababy 11-03-2006 12:48 AM

Same thing goes for the sharks... that simply isn't a big enough tank for any of the shark species, and the smaller ones, such as red tail and rainbow, as they mature, get very aggressive and tend to eat other fish in the tank.
As Blue pointed out, as they age, the flying foxes will usually get aggressive with each other, too. You may find later that you have to seperate them in order to keep them both.
The barbs I suggested would be compatible with the fish you already have, but not with the livebearers.
And, easier to breed or not, the chances of any egg laying fishes spawning and any eggs surviving is slim in a community tank. The pleco would have a feast, but you are welcome to give it a try if you like.
Sometimes in the fish world we have to weigh pros and cons, and while we can create a list of criteria we want in a single tank, that is not always possible, be it color or specific fish, breeding, etc.
Keep in mind that a 30 gallon tank really isn't very large, so even with medium sized fish, there is limited space for animals. The bushynose plecos average 5 - 7 inches full grown, and eat a lot. If the tank is heavily planted, especially as the pleco gets larger, expect any wide leaf plants to be eaten. If enough plants are provided, the pleco will feast on these and not bother with the algae on the glass and rocks, where it would otherwise feed. With that in mind, eventually, that pleco is still going to outgrow a 30 gallon tank, regardless of tank mates. The flying foxes tend to average 4 - 5 inches, so with those and the pleco, your 30 gallon tank is already half full.
I'm sure this isn't quite what you wanted to hear, but this forum is all about providing accurate information and healthy suggestions. For us to suggest a shark of any species, or some of the situations you have described wanting, then we would be partially at fault when you attempted it and ended up with a mess. 30 gallons won't sustain all of that, and a community tank is not a common breeding place, even to expect "a fry or 2" to survive here and there... it's just not a likely situation unless you're working with livebearers.
We'd very much like to help, but in order to do so, you'll have to make some definate choices about what is most important to you.... because unfortunately, in this situation, you can't have it all.


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