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Anthony56 07-05-2012 03:53 PM

Need advice on treating Ich
 
2 Attachment(s)
It appears that my Neon Tetras have Ich. Enclosed is a somewhat blurry photograph of one of the Tetras and other pertinent information. I read the article on Ich written by bettababy and decided not to raise the temp or use meds on my own. I also read the article Freshwater-saltwater-diseases by Lupin. Referring to the causes of Ich in Lupinís article.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lupin
Causes:
Stress, poor water conditions and poor food diet will likely allow the Cryptocarion to infect the fish. Cryptocarion is almost similar to the Ichthyophthirius in freshwater hence the name "marine ich" where it will naturally occur in the marine conditions.

Read more: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/t...#ixzz1zmE6Z1Eh

I added API pH Down to the aquarium in an effort to lower the pH to 6.8 thinking that the higher pH readings may be causing the Tetras stress. A reading taken the next day indicated a drop from 7.8 to 6.8 over night. Now the Tetras appear to look pale with less white spots. Last night I added 4 drops of API pH up. Today the pH is 7.0. The ICH could have come from two Guppies that I had in a quarantine tank for about two weeks before I added them to the Fluval Edge. I would appreciate any advice.

Tank Size: 43 X 26 X 22.4 cm (16.9 X 10.2 X 8.8 in) 23l (6.0 gal)

Water Parameters:
..................pH......Ammonia.....Nitrite..... .Nitrate.... kH......GH......Temp
7/5/12 ......7.0..........0.25..............0............ .20...........2.........7........77.5F
7/1/12.......6.8..........0...................0....... ......20...........2.........6
6/30/12.....7.8..........2...................5......... ....20
6/25/12......7.6.........5...................5......... ....20
6/18/12......7.6.........8...................5......... ....10
6/12/12......7.2.........8...................5......... .....0
6/10/12......7.2.........8..................3.5........ ....0
6/7/12........7.6.........4...................2....... ......0.5.........3...........6
6/5/12........7.6.........4...................0....... .......0...........3...........7
6/1/12........7.1.........4.................0.25...... .....0
5/31/12......6.6.........8.................0.5
5/28/12......7.6.........8...................0
5/25/12......7.6.........4.................0.25........ ...0
5/13/12....................2...................0
5/6/12........7.6........0.25...............0......... .....0
5/1/12........7.6........0.25...............0......... .....0

Test Kit: API Freshwater Master Test Kit

FW: Freshwater

Started: 4/27/12

Fish: 3-Neon Tetras 2.0cm in the tank for 9wks, 1-Cory Cat (trilineatus) 3.0cm in the tank for 7wks, 2-Guppies 2.4cm in the tank for 2wks

The Guppies were quarantined for 3wks

No live plants

Substrate: pea gravel

Artificial log

Filtration: Hagen HOB similar to AquaClear Power Filter 5-20gal, 33-100gph

Heater: 25W 78deg max, not being use

Lighting schedule: apprx 12hrs

No direct sunlight

Water Changes: tap water once a week (1.5gal) treated with Tetra AquaSafe plus

Gravel vacumed: Once a month

Feeding: Once a day with dry blood worms, fish flakes

The Tetras are looking pale

Gills look good

Have used pH UP and pH Down

No meds

marshallsea 07-05-2012 04:19 PM

The ph chemicals are probably stressing your fish, as chemicals are known to do. If you've decided against heat and meds, how are going to get rid of Ich? Heat is very effective against Ich. I've used heat at 90 degrees for 14 days and cured Ich with no problems.

Anthony56 07-05-2012 04:47 PM

I am worried about harming the fish since their requirements for temperature, meds and salt differ.

Quote:

Neons come from cooler waters and do best with lower to normal community temperatures (maximum 78F) and are thus not suitable with fish that require warmer temperatures such as some dwarf cichlids (including the common ram) and discus.



Read more: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/profiles/neon-tetra/#ixzz1zmoCk2LX


Quote:

Three lined Cory
Soft (hardness up to 12 dGH) acidic to very slightly basic (pH to 7.2) water, temperature 22-26C/72-78F but not warmer.


Read more: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/profiles/three-line-cory/#ixzz1zmoa28OB


Quote:

Three lined Cory
The Corydoras are quite sensitive to water parameters and quality, and highly intolerant of salt, chemicals and medications.


Read more: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/profiles/three-line-cory/#ixzz1zmqtb100


Quote:

Guppies
Medium hard to hard (9-30 dGH), basic (pH 7-8.5), temperature 18-28C/64-82F.


Read more: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/profiles/guppy/#ixzz1zmpBYKKu

marshallsea 07-05-2012 04:57 PM

To rid your tank of Ich you will have to do one or the other. I strongly suggest heat. Temps above 87 for 2 weeks will do it without meds. While it may not be recommended for some fish to raise temps over 78, its also not recommended to break your leg, but you can survive it. Just increase temp to 88 slowly, 1-2 degrees an hour and increase surface agitation to help with oxygen. Watch your fish to make sure they're ok. While our tanks and fish are different it had no ill effect on mine.

Anthony56 07-05-2012 05:09 PM

Quote:

While it may not be recommended for some fish to raise temps over 78, its also not recommended to break your leg, but you can survive it.


That's pretty funny and true. I like your sense of humor. I will have to go out and buy an adjustible heater since the one I have is fixed at 78F. How do you regulate the pH?

marshallsea 07-05-2012 05:18 PM

I believe that instead of regulating ph its better for the fish to keep fish that will be comfortable in your water. While Im not qualified to give fish stocking advise, a more experienced member will help you. And while some will disagree, I think if you keep clean water, fish can adapt to a wider range of ph than what is recommended. That would be better than constantly putting ph chemicals in your tank.

marshallsea 07-05-2012 05:46 PM

Also it seems you have hard and soft water fish in the same tank. I know it sucks but you may need to rehome some of them. But Im new and am not qualified to say. You should start a thread on fish stocking and let someone more advanced guide you. Good luck.

Tazman 07-05-2012 09:49 PM

Ok, so first of all. We have some major issues here.

The tank is way too small for any of those fish to survive long term as they will all outgrow it.

The pH swing is causing them stress which is then effecting their immune system and has lead to the ich outbreak more than likely.

To cure ich without using meds, it is very important to slowly raise the temperature to above 80F, The lifecycle of the ich parasite will be sped up with the higher temperature.
You are going to have to perform DAILY without exception water changes and vacuum the gravel otherwise the ich will keep occurring and infect the other fish if it hasnt already.

Neon Tetra like to be in shoals of 5 or more so they feel secure, it can stress them if there are less.

Guppies (do you know the sex of the ones you have?) can be quite aggressive if you have male and females..either a male to a few female is best or all of one sex.

I am sorry for the information and it is probably not what you want to hear but changes are going to have to be made. :-(

jaysee 07-05-2012 11:45 PM

There is no problem with raising the temp for the 2 weeks it takes to eliminate the parasite. Ich is very common and very easy to treat. You are opening yourself up for much more serious problems by trying to avoid a minor inconvenience.

Higher temps speed up the metabolism of all living creatures, including parasites. However, there is a point at which the life cycle is disrupted and that is where the temp needs to be for it to be effective. The exact temp varies by strain - there are some that are "heat resistant". The temp needs to be around 86 in order to be certain the treatment is effective. While you can have success at lower temps, there is a greater possibility of an unsuccessful treatment.

I treat all new fish for ich with a heat treatment while they are in quarantine - I've done LOTS of heat treatments. When I started, I did them at lower temps and it was not always successful. Since I started doing 86, only once has it not worked. I did a second round at 90 and that took care of it.

I don't do water changes or vacs during the treatment and I've not ever had a reinfection nor has any fish ever brought it into a show tank.

Mikey1973 07-06-2012 04:14 PM

My Mollies got a bad case of Ick, I just doubled up the dosage on Prime and Stress Coat and it went away pretty fast.


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