Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources

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-   -   inbreeding my views, tell me yours ?? :) (http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-tropical-fish/inbreeding-my-views-tell-me-yours-103566/)

fryup 06-06-2012 05:39 PM

inbreeding my views, tell me yours ?? :)
 
I believe it to be wrong on ALMOST every level, the first I believe to be ok is if a species is on the brink of extinction (any animal) and I would like to know your views on my next view ... If a fish was to accidenty breed with a relation , would it be wrong to kill off the offspring or would you allow them to grow and possibly sell them on to pet shops / privately ???


All views appreciated :):):)
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pandamonium 06-07-2012 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fryup (Post 1108292)
I believe it to be wrong on ALMOST every level, the first I believe to be ok is if a species is on the brink of extinction (any animal) and I would like to know your views on my next view ... If a fish was to accidenty breed with a relation , would it be wrong to kill off the offspring or would you allow them to grow and possibly sell them on to pet shops / privately ???


All views appreciated :):):)
Posted via Mobile Device

i had this happen with platies i had bought. i didnt sell them, just kept them all. when i was at school, they kept on breeding for a few generations. if my timing is right, about 5 generations of inbreeding. i wouldnt kill the offspring or sell them. i just let them be. this past spawn, the 6th one, i had 8 babies survive before i netted them into a breeder. but they all died due to spinal deformities. so im guessing after a while, the recessive traits show up enough that the fry dont live. natural selection cutting off that inbreeding.

thekoimaiden 06-07-2012 09:50 AM

Inbreeding is how we made every single breed of domestic animal and plant. Every single variation of livebearer, goldfish, angelfish, discus or betta owes its look in part to inbreeding. Inbreeding is also a means of speciation. When a small group of individuals are trapped on an island for thousands of years, they will inbreed to the point where a new species is born. A certain degree of inbreeding is natural. However, there is a line (but nature takes care of this, too). As inbreeding results in homozygosity (everyone with the same genes) too much can lead to bad genes being fixed in a population. This might leave an entire population open to being wiped out in a single generation. There are actually whole classes offered on this stuff at the college level. I covered some stuff in genetics as well as population dynamics. Genetics of endangered populations goes into it even further (although I didn't take that class).

Personally, I'm fine with responsible line-breeding. I wouldn't have most of my fish without it. As long as a breeder is practicing safe breeding techniques, I'm perfectly fine with it.

1077 06-07-2012 10:11 AM

Is how we wind up with weaker and weaker strains of fishes,lower birth number's,and genetic abnormalities passed down to generation's and unknowing consumer's.
Cross breeding is how many species were developed, but inbreeding (sibling's breeding with sibling's) doesn't do anything positve for the hobby.

Olympia 06-07-2012 11:01 AM

"Sure you get some weak ones that die off, but you get desired traits faster."
You know what's a product of this? Balloon fish.
There is a line... More and more I question where this line is. Surely 8 generations of inbreeding, I think that's a standard, is not good... We test our dogs, cats, cattle, for genetic issues that are not visible on the outside and breed accordingly... Fish are just bred for looks and we don't see what's going on inside of them. We should be more careful breeding fish, not less careful.
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1077 06-07-2012 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olympia (Post 1109053)
"Sure you get some weak ones that die off, but you get desired traits faster."
You know what's a product of this? Balloon fish.
There is a line... More and more I question where this line is. Surely 8 generations of inbreeding, I think that's a standard, is not good... We test our dogs, cats, cattle, for genetic issues that are not visible on the outside and breed accordingly... Fish are just bred for looks and we don't see what's going on inside of them. We should be more careful breeding fish, not less careful.
Posted via Mobile Device

Weak ones that don't die, are often culled and shipped or sold to those who are paying for quality fishes not hybrid's or inbred fishes.
Some are careful not to introduce these cull's and other's could give a crap.
I ,personally despise these atrocities and those who pass them into the hobby, for it ultimately does more harm to seemingly already weaker strains than I used to see even 10, 20 year's ago.
Cross breeding ,inbreeding,both different, but inter-related as well.
Both produce same undesireble result's without vgery special attention that most won't be bothered with in the interest of creating the next atrocity = $$$,:evil:

Mikaila31 06-08-2012 09:33 PM

I agree with Koimadien so many strains of fish would not exist in this hobby without inbreeding. Including that golden angelfish you have as your avatar ;-) .

fryup 06-09-2012 04:02 AM

... My prized possetion haha .... Theres many reason to line breed and some that sugest its wrong, I guess in little doses its ok :):):)
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Olympia 06-09-2012 10:43 AM

You want to keep the gene pool as large as possible. But people are in a hurry.. That's why so many dog breeds each are prone to different genetic issues.
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thekoimaiden 06-09-2012 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olympia (Post 1110942)
You want to keep the gene pool as large as possible. But people are in a hurry.. That's why so many dog breeds each are prone to different genetic issues.
Posted via Mobile Device

I think it's also because most breeds were developed before we had a good grasp of genetics. Most of the breeds that are being developed today are done so responsibly under the guidance of geneticists.


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