Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources

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-   -   Kribensis Cichlid and Dwarf Gourami - Compatibility Help Needed (http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-tropical-fish/kribensis-cichlid-dwarf-gourami-compatibility-help-103095/)

Termato 06-01-2012 12:20 PM

Kribensis Cichlid and Dwarf Gourami - Compatibility Help Needed
 
29 Gallon Planted Freshwater Community Tank.

I lost 3 Neons and a Bolivian Ram to Camallanus. I currently have the following fish in the tank.

8 Neon Tetras
4 Bronze Cory
1 Male Albino Bristlenose Pleco
1 Male Sailfin Lyretail Molly
1 Female Kribensis Cichlid

I want to get the following fish:
7-8 Neon Tetras
2 Bronze Cory
1 Male Dwarf Gourami (who will be quarantined for 6-8 weeks in a 10 gallon first)

I need some feedback on the compatibility of the Kribensis and the Gourami. The Kribensis seems to be fine right now. In the end if they don't get along one could be moved into the 20.

Any suggestions? Inputs? Ideas? Better stocking suggestions?

I also have a 20 gallon community tank with 1 male molly, 1 bristlenose and 7 baby platys, a 10 gallon tank with 20 baby platys, 1 female molly and 1 baby female molly (the two mollies and 3 platys will go in the 20. i might add 1 or 2 platys to the 29 later on. the rest will be donated), a 5 gallon betta tank.

Byron 06-01-2012 01:28 PM

I would caution against this. First, I do not consider gourami and cichlids to be compatible whatever the species, primarily because they are so much alike in personality (males are territorial, etc).

But even more, the dwarf gourami is not a good fish. There are stores that refuse to even stock it any longer, and many highly-knowledgeable sources such as Dr. Neale Monks will write that this is not a fish to even consider. If you know the source, by which I mean the breeder, it may be safe; but stores can get their fish from all over the place, and this species is notorious for carrying a serious virus which is not curable.

As for the other fish, the mix of molly and neon tetra is risky, due to water parameters. Molly must have hard water, there is no exception to that. And neon tetra while considered "adaptable" will not be at their best health unless they have soft water. This is one of those situations where it "can work" but not in the best interests of the fish, which means opening the door to problems that could otherwise be avoided.

Byron.

Termato 06-01-2012 01:49 PM

I called the water company to confirm some water parameters in my tank. Although I got some good information on the hardness, their nitrate information is throwing me off.

I called and they did not even know what General or Carbon Hardness was. The person gave me the Calcium Hardness which falls under the dgH which is Calcium or Magnesium (according to your article I read on hardness, please correct me if I am wrong).

Water Plant Reports:

dgH: 20-21
Nitrate: 5.0ppm


0 - 4 dGH 0 - 70 ppm very soft
4 - 8 dGH 70 - 140 ppm soft
8 - 12 dGH 140 - 210 ppm medium hard
12 - 18 dGH 210 - 320 ppm fairly hard
18 - 30 dGH 320 - 530 ppm hard
over 30 dGH over 530 ppm very hard

Read more: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/f...#ixzz1wZLkTxTQ

My Reports:

Nitrate: 50ppm

The Kribensis seems to adapt quite well. What schooling fish for hard water would you recommend to replace the neons? I could get a second school that could eventually replace the neons.

Also Byron, what about the Honey Gourami (Trichogaster chuna)
Soft to moderately hard (< 20 dGH)

I would be in the extreme of its ranges but the ones they sell here are kept in our local tap water. I'm only thinking of the Gourami still, although you cautioned about the temperaments of males, is because the Kribensis is a Female. Thoughts?

If the water would be suitable but the compatibility not, I could move the Kribensis into the 10 or 20 gallon, most likely the 20 which will have mollies and platys and a bristlenose.

Byron 06-01-2012 04:41 PM

That is hard water, so the molly (and any livebearers) will be good. And yes, calcium/magnesium are the two minerals that usually determine GH.

As for the other basically soft water fish, the cichlids and gourami (common species) are almost certainly tank-raised and not wild, so some adaptability is to be presumed. I can't say more on this, as I've no experience with either mentioned species. I would not combine them though.

Characins I do know, and the majority simply will not last a normal lifespan in hard water. They are more sensitive in this respect than some other fish. There are some species that will, one example is Pristella. The data in the profiles mentions this.

To that nitrate, is it 5.0 or 50 ppm? You give both these numbers.

Termato 06-01-2012 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron (Post 1103000)
That is hard water, so the molly (and any livebearers) will be good. And yes, calcium/magnesium are the two minerals that usually determine GH.

As for the other basically soft water fish, the cichlids and gourami (common species) are almost certainly tank-raised and not wild, so some adaptability is to be presumed. I can't say more on this, as I've no experience with either mentioned species. I would not combine them though.

Characins I do know, and the majority simply will not last a normal lifespan in hard water. They are more sensitive in this respect than some other fish. There are some species that will, one example is Pristella. The data in the profiles mentions this.

To that nitrate, is it 5.0 or 50 ppm? You give both these numbers.

Thanks Byron!

I will not keep the Kribensis and Gourami together. I will be moving the Kribensis to the 20 gallon. The Gourami will go in the 10 gallon for quarantine along with any other fish I decide to get.

The Water Facilities reported Nitrate at 5.0 ppm

When I test with API Master Test kit I get the result of 50.00ppm

They don't carry Pristellas around me but I do like them. I will attempt to find them near me somewhere.

Byron 06-01-2012 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Termato (Post 1103002)
Thanks Byron!

I will not keep the Kribensis and Gourami together. I will be moving the Kribensis to the 20 gallon. The Gourami will go in the 10 gallon for quarantine along with any other fish I decide to get.

The Water Facilities reported Nitrate at 5.0 ppm

When I test with API Master Test kit I get the result of 50.00ppm

They don't carry Pristellas around me but I do like them. I will attempt to find them near me somewhere.

Thse numbers make a big difference. A nitrate of 5ppm is easily handled but an influx of water with 50ppm is another matter. AbbeysDad has this problem I believe, and there is a thread in which he explains how he deals with it. If you can't find it, send a PM to AD.

Termato 06-01-2012 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron (Post 1103027)
Thse numbers make a big difference. A nitrate of 5ppm is easily handled but an influx of water with 50ppm is another matter. AbbeysDad has this problem I believe, and there is a thread in which he explains how he deals with it. If you can't find it, send a PM to AD.

This isn't necessarily good for our health either though.

What he did was use a DIY Nitrate and get a Filter for the tap water. I read through the thread you noted.

http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/f...p-water-93622/

http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/a...-filter-95837/

http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/d...-filter-93828/

I guess I gotta do something....man...

If I use this filter, my water wont be hard. I will have soft water, therefore I can't really keep the mollies....

We are getting into an whole new issue of water tampering...uh oh.

Quote:

Cons:
- Cartridge use life is relative to source water contaminants so may not be cost practical in areas with very hard water or other elements that would quickly shorten filter use life.


Read more: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/a...#ixzz1waNlmGaj

Byron 06-01-2012 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Termato (Post 1103065)
This isn't necessarily good for our health either though.

What he did was use a DIY Nitrate and get a Filter for the tap water. I read through the thread you noted.

http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/f...p-water-93622/

http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/a...-filter-95837/

http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/d...-filter-93828/

I guess I gotta do something....man...

If I use this filter, my water wont be hard. I will have soft water, therefore I can't really keep the mollies....

We are getting into an whole new issue of water tampering...uh oh.

I would take this slow. The water people indicate 5, your test 50, so I would first question your testing before theirs. Has the API test expired? Are you shaking Regent #2 for 2+ minutes? Can you take a sample to a reliable fish store to test for comparison?

Termato 06-01-2012 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron (Post 1103130)
I would take this slow. The water people indicate 5, your test 50, so I would first question your testing before theirs. Has the API test expired? Are you shaking Regent #2 for 2+ minutes? Can you take a sample to a reliable fish store to test for comparison?

I checked the date on this API test kit and it is not expired. This is the second kit I have purchased, I returned the first one for this same reason because I was getting these results and the test had no date on it.

I have shaken regent two for 2 minutes, 3 minutes, 30 seconds. I have shaken is hard, very HARD, and super hard to the point where I can't feel my hands.

I have tried testing in many ways, many times. The only thing I haven't tried is testing bottled water.

All other tests are accurate.

I will take a sample to both PetSmart, PetCo and Super Pet. Tomorrow I am going in the morning to PetCo to purchase a new corn snake so I will take a sample and have them test it.

rhymon78 06-02-2012 03:12 AM

Hey,

Could I be really stupid and ask one you experienced guys to explain about Nitrates for me,

is nitrate, the same across the board? I mean is the the nitrate we find as a result of the nitrification process in aquariums from fish excretion and respiration etc, breakdown of food matter and (if planted) plant matter, exactly the same as the nitrates we find in our tap water?

I wonder, as from what I have read the nitrate in tap water usually occurs as the naturally occurring water drains through agricultural land picking up as it filters through the ground decaying plant matter, then goes onto the underground reservoirs which are tapped by the water companies. Am I also right in thinking that this is how water picks up its hardness, when filtering through areas high in minerals?

So my question, how is high nitrate levels actually detrimental to fish? and is it just the decaying plant matter that is the problem? or is nitrate just a chemical produced by the decaying matter, and the decaying matter is not actually present physically? This is where I am confused, and would like clarification.

are the two, nitrates present as part of the natural nitrification cycle in aquariums and tap water nitrates, that have come from a water treatment plant the same?

I also have around 40ppm nitrate right out of my tap, I just add it to my tank, it doesn't seem to bother the fish, although I know its a long haul problem, affecting the natural life span of the fish, I struggle to see how this is so bad for the fish?

Sorry for being so uneducated on this matter, hopefully one of you Science guys can enlighten me!

cheers
Simon


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