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Here is why I'm mad with my Vet over my diabetic dog

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Here is why I'm mad with my Vet over my diabetic dog
Old 03-10-2010, 09:36 AM   #31
 
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you HAVE to be careful purchasing on line...a lot of times they get it illegally and there is no telling how it was stored and if it is still any good. My son is diabetic as well i head up the diabetes education at my vet office...i wouldnt risk getting ANY meds on line
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Old 03-10-2010, 11:30 AM   #32
 
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the thing with the vetsulin is that its not "recalled" or anything...the FDA stopped production because toward the end of the bottles shelf life the cystalline portion doesnt always release on time (this is usually 2-3 months before the end of the 24 month shelf life) wihch can cause either a drop or rise in glucose. as long as your pooch is regulated well on the vetsulin i would not recommend switching...if so the Humulin N would be the next best choice...however, this is a human insulin and some pets are difficult to regulate on it. Your vet shouldnt have any problem getting the product....we get any where from 20-40 bottles weekly shipped in. our clients pay $40.00 for a bottle of vetsulin and if they get humulin n from walgreens/walmart/cvs it is $25.00. my guess would be that your vet is just not using it anymore for personal preference.....if it aint broke dont fix it...meaning, again, if your pet is well regulated on the vetsulin i dont see why your vet would want to switch a well regulated pet to a new insulin an have to attempt to get them regulated on it. Also, the humulin n is u-100 where as vetsulin/prozinc is u-40 (a much larger concentration)
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Old 03-10-2010, 03:08 PM   #33
 
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I was doing plenty of reading up o the FDA/ Vetsulin issue and any side effect that includes matters like:
Liver failure; Blindness; Death.....I do NOT need to test how my Maxx may or may not get affected there to be honest with ya. If he goes in a sugar high or low would I notice yes I would - But there can/ are hrs on end where Maxx is alone some 4-5 hrs in a row and I'd not wanna risk coming home to a dog that bottomed out and dead by the time I get home I'm sorry. Anyone being on that Vetsulin can gladly form there own opinion after reading all this but I simply am not going to risk my dog there.
Yea he's got Humulin NPH now and also a new box of the U100 syringes (needless to say I just had bought a brad new big box of u40's but I can return the one's I hadn't opened/ used anyway so no big deal).
I'll still check the normal human pharmacy's and see what the prices are there; there's no point needing to buy it through the Vet if elsewhere I can get it for far less. But I have plenty time to do that now; Maxx is on 2 Units 2xday so you know yourself how long these bottles last.
And yea we've just done the large glucose curve which had put him on 2 units of the new stuff and will do a spot check for the peak of the day now 2x week and/ or I go right in anyway if he seems a lil 'off track' if you know what I mean.
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Old 03-10-2010, 06:36 PM   #34
 
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i would strongly recommend home testing (with an animal approved meter like alphatrak) i dont disagree with you one bit, were it MY dog and MY patients i would too be switching their insulin, my last post is the protocol where i work...we have had some owners who have requested changing and so we did. we are not starting any newly diagnosed patients on vetsulin we are using humulin n for dogs and lantus for cats. From my experience and educational things i have done regarding pets and diabetes they strongly urge owners to save their money with "spot checking" and do weekly curves at home in the pets normal enviroment and then see you regular vet every 6-12 months for a check up and fructosamine. Now, that being said, the doctors i work for disagree with me...they dont want to encourage owners testing at home for fear they may decide to adjust insulin doses themselves...but stress can cause a rise or fall in glucose levels, so testing at home, to me, seems like a good idea. NOW....this is just my knowledge and information i am passing along to you, obviously i do not know your maxx or his situation so it is best to follow your veterinarians recommendations and protocol for their diabetic patients. They should have told you sooner about this as it has been going on almost more then 6 months.
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Old 03-10-2010, 06:54 PM   #35
 
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Yea we been debating the option since he was diagnosed; since I have low sugar and need to test myself daily I know what I'd get myself into...testing my dog (Maxx being Maxx at that) on his ear each day I HIGHLY doubt that will go down well at all with him...Is there any other good way you can recommand doing that???

See exactly THAT is what I asked my Vet last time. Because I know from myself if I get super hyper over something in any good/ bad way anything that makes my adrenaline kick up my sugar takes a deep nose dive. Maxx get SUPERST hyper over car rides, its his treat, so I questioned how 'accurate' after him being so hyper on a 30 mins ride that all would really be.

Have you actually personally ever seen a case a dog came off Insulin? He was started when diagnosed mid last summer at 11 or 12 Units and now he's at 2 Units; needless to say i COMPLEXITY changes his diet (he used to get a lot home cooked dog food with chicken, veggies, rice - Now only meat and the DCO dry food). I was just REALLY wondering about this because me as a human with my low sugar i can do a LOT food wise to be a perfectly healthy & happy candidate and I wondered how much I can do for him with the right food since obviously I gotta be doing something right going from that high dose to this low does now with him...Just curious what your exp there is or what you may have seen?

Edit: Thanks Mollifan I really highly appreciate your input on all this!!!
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Old 03-11-2010, 07:27 PM   #36
 
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now is it the vetsulin he went down to 2 units on or the new nph?? if it is the nph, he is on the lower dose because it is a higher concentration insulin, they rec. starting MOST dogs on 1-2 units of nph twice daily. dogs with diabetes are best associated with people who have type 1 diabetes and cats to people with type 2, there is a big difference in type 1 and 2. for my diabetic dogs i always rec. hills w/d or the dco. as long as you are feeding him when needed, giving him his insulin and know how to recognize when he is low you are doing a good job. it is up to your vet to give you the proper insulin dosage. all diabetics, people and pets, type 1 and type 2 should be on a low carb diet, the two mentioned above of good examples of this. i also recommend feeding the canned versions of both foods as it is naturually lower in carbohydrates.

and again, whether testing at home or in the vet office a single blood sugar isnt going to tell you a whole lot, ideally sugars should be checked every couple hours for a period of 24 hours to give you the best idea as to how the pet is reacting to the insulin being given. You want to find out his nadir. In simple terms you want to find out when and what is lowest blood sugar level is, and the best way to do so is the sugar check every 2-3 hours for 24 hours. if his nadir is 60 or less your vet should decrease his insulin dose, if his nadir is 250 or higher then his insulin dose should be increased, i dont ever recommend increasing by more then 1/2 a unit twice daily. and i will probably say this in every post in this thread but, DO NOT do anything with out first consulting YOUR vet. i know you know better, but somepeople take matters into their own hands and that can cause tragidy sometimes....

ps...no problem, diabetes has become a very big part of my life and i really enjoy being able to help and educate others about it as well!!

Last edited by molliefan09; 03-11-2010 at 07:30 PM..
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Old 03-11-2010, 07:59 PM   #37
 
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The NPH is 2 Units.
Right now he's been getting (since diagnosed) the dco and plain cooked meet like chicken or sometimes some pork or just now a lil piece shrimp from my fish food lol but that's really it no treats no more NADDA ZERO

Yea that's what I thought about doing is "own" glucose curves at home the last curve done just now with switching him to the new insulin the lowest he had was 62 at the Vet and the highest 120-122 not exactly sure about the highest number but right there somewhere 120,121,122 - And cause of that they put him on 2 Units 2x day.

I wouldn't mind buying him his meter ("Maxx meter and Mom's meter lol) but doing it in his lil ear's I know he's gonna FREAK over that.
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Old 03-12-2010, 08:32 AM   #38
 
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that sounds like and alright curve except for the nadir being so low at 62. it sounds like you are doing a good job with diet which will help to lower his insulin requirements. Honeslty, MOST pets dont mind it when we use the inside of the ear flap for checking sugars, they actually hardly react at all, even the cats do great. i have so many meters in my house from different human diabetes seminars ive gone to they are coming out my ears!! but you NEED to get a meter made for pets if you do choose to do home testing, also, make sure your vet is using one, as some vets will use human meters...the only one i know of is called alphatrak. we had a client using a human meter on their dog and just out of curiousity i asked them to bring it with them on their next visit just so i could compare readings and their human meter read 162 as the dogs blood sugar, which is good, but when i used our meter AND our blood chemistry tester with the same blood sample it was 495!!!
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Old 03-12-2010, 10:17 AM   #39
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by molliefan09 View Post
that sounds like and alright curve except for the nadir being so low at 62.
Yea uhm I pers from the reading I had done since Maxx was diagnosed found that a little too little myself but Doc said it was alright....

Quote:
Originally Posted by molliefan09 View Post
human meter read 162 as the dogs blood sugar, which is good, but when i used our meter AND our blood chemistry tester with the same blood sample it was 495!!!
DANG! That's not just off by 5-10 count that's the difference between being OK and a High that's able to cause failures Dang!

I need to go find a place where I can get doggy meters; maybe I'll be able to find something online ...

Thanks for all your support feels good to actually talk to someone who understands what I'm talking about with Maxx
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Old 03-12-2010, 04:41 PM   #40
 
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im sure you can find something on line, the alphtrak canine/feline meters are good. and like i said before, i have no problem helping you out!! this is what i LOVE doing
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