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Carsten just had a MAJOR MAJOR seizure, I am freaking.

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Carsten just had a MAJOR MAJOR seizure, I am freaking.
Old 02-09-2012, 04:09 PM   #11
 
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The seizure log is an excellent idea. Although I hope I never again need one We always think we will remember every detail of something like this but with time our memories fade and facts might not be accurate. I will write down all these facts while they are fresh in my mind.

As far as the blood tests, I believe they did a CMP as well as a CBC but I will check for sure. I guess I would be annoyed at this point if they did a basic metabolic panel instead of a complete. I will let everyone know about the lead exposure test results as I get them. So far, 16 hours, no seizure.
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Old 02-09-2012, 04:46 PM   #12
 
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Moleen, I believe the test you're thinking of comes in different combinations in different panels. Which assays the vet would orders depends on the individual patient and could include a combination of T4, free T4, T3, free T3, TSH, TgAA, T3AA, T4AA, or K (though K is rarely used anymore). Assays can also be evaluated at peak and trough levels on supplementation. Also, dogs are almost never hyperthyroid. The connection between canine hypothyroidism and seizures is unclear.
There are many, many diagnostics that could be run and just as many possible causes of seizures, and I think its best to leave that up to the veterinarian. He/she is the one that has done the exam on the patient and knows the full history, assembles the list of differentials order of most plausible, and bases the diagnostics from there. In an animal that shows no outward symptoms of hypothyroidism, that particular differential may be quite low on the list. We could sit here and guess all day at possible causes, there are many possibilities- portosystemic shunt (either intra- or extra-hepatic), tick borne illnesses such as Lyme disease and Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, lead poisoning, a variety of toxins (including slug bait, mushrooms, organo-phosphates, pyrethrins, xylitol, and theobromine/chocolate), hypokalemia, hypoglycemia, hypocalcemia, renal disease, hepatic disease, distemper virus, head trauma, Addison's disease, diabetes, and probably many more than I'm forgetting. And then there's always idiopathic epilepsy. The vet will start with the most likely and work her way down from there. But the odds are in Carsten's favor as for as diagnosis and prognosis, so let's leave it at that.

You're in my thoughts, Inga!
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Old 02-09-2012, 04:53 PM   #13
 
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I meant to add- At this point in the case, a vet cannot just order every test that could possibly give an answer. That would be a huge waste of Inga's money, and time. So he/she starts with the tests most likely to give answers- and early on, those test are a CBC, a Chemistry Panel, Electrolytes, a CMP, and whatever else is at the top of the list of differentials- in this case, a blood lead level.

Inga- Has your dog been on any medications lately?
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Old 02-09-2012, 05:51 PM   #14
 
Moleen, I believe the test you're thinking of comes in different combinations in different panels. Which assays the vet would orders depends on the individual patient and could include a combination of T4, free T4, T3, free T3, TSH, TgAA, T3AA, T4AA, or K (though K is rarely used anymore). Assays can also be evaluated at peak and trough levels on supplementation. Also, dogs are almost never hyperthyroid. The connection between canine hypothyroidism and seizures is unclear.
There are many, many diagnostics that could be run and just as many possible causes of seizures, and I think its best to leave that up to the veterinarian. He/she is the one that has done the exam on the patient and knows the full history, assembles the list of differentials order of most plausible, and bases the diagnostics from there. In an animal that shows no outward symptoms of hypothyroidism, that particular differential may be quite low on the list. We could sit here and guess all day at possible causes, there are many possibilities- portosystemic shunt (either intra- or extra-hepatic), tick borne illnesses such as Lyme disease and Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, lead poisoning, a variety of toxins (including slug bait, mushrooms, organo-phosphates, pyrethrins, xylitol, and theobromine/chocolate), hypokalemia, hypoglycemia, hypocalcemia, renal disease, hepatic disease, distemper virus, head trauma, Addison's disease, diabetes, and probably many more than I'm forgetting. And then there's always idiopathic epilepsy. The vet will start with the most likely and work her way down from there. But the odds are in Carsten's favo

Read more: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/n...#ixzz1lvitfCA1

Mina.....thank you for the educattion!! A complete thyroid panel is done is ONE test. Sent a bazillion blood samples to Dr Jean Dodds over the years through my years breeding, showing and doing rescue work with Akitas..they happen to very prone to immune-mediated hypothyroidism. Yes, I do happen to know that HYPERthyroidism is rare in dogs, never said it wasn't. I also am very well aware that there are many, many reasons for seizures...I was just sharing my experience with my own dog who also never showed outward symptoms of hypothyroidism!

BUT...thank you so much for reminding me that it is best to leave things up to the veterinarian (you know the one who has examined the patient, knows the full history and "assembles the list of differentials"). Give me a break! And yes, I think you definately left out some other possibilities.....but I would soooo love for you to expand on intra vs the extra-hepatic shunt!!!! LOL LMAO!

And YES!!!! I am being a little bit snarky....just didn't expect to be reprimanded by" Dr. Mina". I had to drag out my dictionary just so I could understand all the big words!!!!



Anyways....good luck Inga....just sharing my experience with you...hoping I could help.
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Old 02-09-2012, 06:29 PM   #15
 
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Wow, chill. I was just being factual. I intended no ill will. The motive behind my post was to say that the vet will be the best to decide which diagnostics to run. I think it would be counter productive for Inga to go to her vet wanting a thyroid panel, when hypothyroidism is likely to be at the bottom of the list of differentials. At this point, it would be a waste of time and money that could be better spent in other ways.

Like I said, I intended no ill will. My posts contained facts, which I did double check. I've seen hundreds, maybe more, seizure patients in my 13 years working in small animal practices, and 7.5 of those years has been in emergency medicine in practices that also have Internal Medicine and Surgery patients. I stand by what I said. But I'm also not looking for a fight. This is not about us, its about Inga. So let's focus our energy on her, okay?
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Old 02-10-2012, 11:34 AM   #16
 
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Thank you everyone for your input and kind thoughts, it is appreciated more then you know. Last night was another very difficult night. I put Carsten in his kennel in the living room as instructed by the ER vet at 10:30. He screamed in there until 2:00 when I got him out and took him out to potty. I know that the meds make him very thirsty and very hungry so I thought, maybe that would help.

When he came back in from his potty break he tried to go in my bedroom, which is where he usually sleeps on his dog bed next to my bed. I called him and he came and I put him back into his kennel. He screamed (not whined, screamed) until 4:30 Am. Mind you I have slept all of 6 hours in 3 days now. I couldn't take anymore, I had been awake the whole time trying to ignore him but couldn't anymore. I went and got him hoping he would lie down on his bed and go to sleep but he wouldn't. I let him come up on the bed as he obviously wanted to be near me. As soon as he was up there, he put his head on my chest and fell asleep, as did I. I woke up around 6:00 with my arm asleep from having a Rottweiler lying on it. Carsten was breathing normal and was in a nice deep sleep. I talked to him and he popped his head up and licked me. I said "let's go outside" which usually both dogs respond to by running out to the door. Oliver got up and ran and Carsten began screaming again. It seemed he couldn't move his back legs or even back half of his body.

I helped him down off the bed and supported his weight while his legs sort of woke up but he still staggered and fell, staggered and fell and his legs kept slipping out from under him. I gave him some breakfast which he gobbled down and took him out to potty. I brought him in and I took a shower where I tried to work up the nerve to take him in to be put to sleep. I do not want this darling boy to suffer, he is such a good dog and is suffering so much right now.

I called the vet, and began praying that the lead levels would be back and there would be something that could help him.. He was knuckling by this time, walking on the backs of his back feet or way over to the side and not righting himself. I of course am a basket case by this time. When I got him to the vet the vet really went over him again and said "I think the ER Vet really dosed him heavily and I think he is stoned out of his mind." The vet wants to wait for the lead levels even though he doesn't think it will show anything. He is also hoping that in a few days the drugs will have worked their way out of his system and hopefully he will improve.

At the ER the vet gave him a loading dose of Kepra in shot form and sent me home with instructions to give 2 phenobarbital every 4 hours for 4 doses and then 1 pill 2 times daily. When he does the one pill two times daily we watch and hope the seizures to do start up again. All I can say is I am so worn out both mentally and emotionally. I can't stand this up and down. I love this dog so much as do all the children he has helped through therapy work. He doesn't deserve this. Nobody does.

Money is obviously a factor but I will do everything in my power to help my dogs. What will be really horrid is if I drop tons of money and it still ends up that he needs to be put to sleep. If I drop tons of money and he can have a nice long normal life, it is worth every penny. At this point, I have cried so much my head is throbbing and my eyes want to pop out of my head from lack of sleep. Maybe I should go buy some plants and work on my fish tanks to get my mind off it. Oh wait, I can't because my dog is screaming again in the other room. Ugh!
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Old 02-10-2012, 12:24 PM   #17
 
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My heart goes out to you, i cant stand to read this thread... its not even my dog.. but i AM CRYING AND CRYING i can feel your pain thru your words Inga.. Prayers for you and Carsten.. :(
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Old 02-10-2012, 12:41 PM   #18
 
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How awful :( :( I don't know how you're getting through hearing a dog "scream"

I'm hoping that things will work themselves out and that he's able to live a good long life. But if the worst happens, know that you did all you could to help your buddy.

Hugs ( ) ( )
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Old 02-11-2012, 01:16 AM   #19
 
Inga,

I know I don't know you, but I do understand and can empathize with your horrible pain. It is very hard to watch our babies go through something like this, that is so obviously scary for them and us, and something each of us tries to understand and process what is happening, yet cannot.

I hope you get answers soon, for both of your sakes.

--Gina
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Old 02-11-2012, 03:23 AM   #20
 
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Sorry to hear about your Carsten, I dont have any personal experience with the seizures, but I know that many dogs suffer them and can still go on to live long lives, I hope this is the case for your baby boy. thoughts and prayers are out to you both. I have 3 dogs and 3 cats and it tears me up when they are sick so I can relate with you there.
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