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Ultra Nano Reef project (or semi reef) ...my new project

This is a discussion on Ultra Nano Reef project (or semi reef) ...my new project within the Nano Reef forums, part of the Advanced Saltwater Discussion category; --> Originally Posted by jwalker314 i enjoy watching builds from start to finish, so please post some pictures as you progress..thanks! Actually headed to Xtreme ...

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Ultra Nano Reef project (or semi reef) ...my new project
Old 08-01-2009, 03:41 PM   #11
 
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Originally Posted by jwalker314 View Post
i enjoy watching builds from start to finish, so please post some pictures as you progress..thanks!

Actually headed to Xtreme Marine( the LFS ) right now, to look at picking up everything to start. Will definitely post pics. Thanks for your interest
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Old 08-01-2009, 08:33 PM   #12
 
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Wow. I just discovered this thread. I find it frustrating that the most experienced members of our forum, along with an experienced newcomer, are having difficulty engaging in a productive conversation. I have personally attempted on several occasions in the past to participate in other online forums such as this one. In each case, the behavior of the established pecking order resulted in my becoming frustrated and choosing to leave. Eventually I found my way to this site, a little over a year ago, and due to the acceptance and courtesy of the existing members I eventually found this to be a permanent home.

I have a ridiculous amount of experience in this hobby. I have seen countless methods of setting up and maintaining aquariums. I am very vocal about my personal experiences and opinions. However, I want to be extremely clear that I recommend the methods which I recommend because these are the easiest methods for the newcomer to utilize to find success and become long term hobbyists.

In time we all find our own groove in this hobby. We may communicate our techniques and opinions somewhat differently, but the bottom line is generally the same. In this particular thread, I very much disagree with the method that is being used to generate success. I think their are easier ways to accomplish this goal. My point of disagree lies in the fact that there will be some new hobbyists who read this thread and do not recognize the extreme level of skill and knowledge required to pull off this system.

This is very similar to a hobbyist I know well who recently purchased a Clown Tang, despite knowing their track record of success has been proven to be almost zip. As advanced hobbyists we take on tasks to stretch the limits of what we are capable of accomplishing, and although I may not consider it appropriate to keep a Coral Beauty Angelfish in a 5 gallon tank, I believe this is moral discussion and not a discussion of ability. Given the level of experience that SuperFishFan claims, I am certain he has the capacity to create this thriving system he is attempting.

I would like to see every post on this thread begin with this disclosure: Do Not Try This At Home!
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Old 08-01-2009, 11:46 PM   #13
 
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Originally Posted by Pasfur View Post
Wow. I just discovered this thread. I find it frustrating that the most experienced members of our forum, along with an experienced newcomer, are having difficulty engaging in a productive conversation. I have personally attempted on several occasions in the past to participate in other online forums such as this one. In each case, the behavior of the established pecking order resulted in my becoming frustrated and choosing to leave. Eventually I found my way to this site, a little over a year ago, and due to the acceptance and courtesy of the existing members I eventually found this to be a permanent home.

I feel ya, man. It was very disenchanting for me as well. I have had so many experiences, the same as you've described, regarding other forums ...makes me sick to think back on it. So after lurking around here for a while, and thinking/feeling to myself that it seemed different here... I joined. But when I started this thread, I began to feel that it was going right back to the same outlook I'd felt about those other forums.
I need to say this: if it wasn't for the professionalism of Mike(Admin), Kymmie, Wake49, OF2F and yourself; I would have been outta here a couple days ago. So I want to thank the above mentioned members for thier understanding and support.... good people.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Pasfur View Post
I have a ridiculous amount of experience in this hobby. I have seen countless methods of setting up and maintaining aquariums. I am very vocal about my personal experiences and opinions. However, I want to be extremely clear that I recommend the methods which I recommend because these are the easiest methods for the newcomer to utilize to find success and become long term hobbyists.

In time we all find our own groove in this hobby. We may communicate our techniques and opinions somewhat differently, but the bottom line is generally the same. In this particular thread, I very much disagree with the method that is being used to generate success. I think their are easier ways to accomplish this goal. My point of disagree lies in the fact that there will be some new hobbyists who read this thread and do not recognize the extreme level of skill and knowledge required to pull off this system.

This is very similar to a hobbyist I know well who recently purchased a Clown Tang, despite knowing their track record of success has been proven to be almost zip. As advanced hobbyists we take on tasks to stretch the limits of what we are capable of accomplishing, and although I may not consider it appropriate to keep a Coral Beauty Angelfish in a 5 gallon tank, I believe this is moral discussion and not a discussion of ability. Given the level of experience that SuperFishFan claims, I am certain he has the capacity to create this thriving system he is attempting.

I would like to see every post on this thread begin with this disclosure: Do Not Try This At Home!

Pasfur, I hope and want you to realize that you and I really do share alot of the same morals and ideals when it comes to our hobby and to our responsibility to it. I agree that 'We', as hobbyists, do eventually find our own "sub-techniques". We become comfortable with our own protocol that we've derived from general hobby knowledge and beginer/ intermediate knowledge and instruction; through our growth, failures, and successes, then becoming advanced and experts in our craft. I also realize that in this hobby; as in many others, there are many ways to get one task completed successfully... I'd like to think that, that's the beauty in the science of our hobby.

I also understand100%, and agree 100% with your idea that we as advanced hobbyists should be as helpful as we can be to newer and beginer hobbyists, in showing them the "easiest ways to accomplish a goal" as aquarists; you have my full support in that statement and fact.........

However(and please hear the logic in this )..... that would be based on a fact, that I was developing a forum thread on "How to start a Semi-Nano-Reef in a 5 gallon cubed aquarium"
...... but I have Not.

I was not inviting anyone to try my method (not even based on the fact that I've had absolute success over the years in maintaining artificial aquatic environments smaller than this, with total health and success). I was simply sharing with whoever might be intersted, the 'adventure' of my cutting edge project (and I don't even know that I can truley call it 'cutting edge', because so much of today's hobby <both Marine and Freshwater genre's> has gone to smaller environments (e.g. 'nano'), that it's become another heavily sought after, acceptable, and now almost common practice in our hobby.

So based on the fact that I was not inviting anyone, at all, to replicate my method in any way, shape, or form, and that I authored no "how to" methods regarding my project; thus I believe that I showed no signs of irresponsibility toward our beginning and intermediate fellow hobbyists here on the forums. And as well, even though there maybe be "other" or "easier" or" less complicated" or "more complicated" ways of bringing this project to fruition, the bottom line is - the method I chose, is the method that I chose ...for ME ...not for anyone else (and with many personal years of experience... not just by a whim)

So saying that every post in this thread should state "Don't Try This at Home" is not only 'Unfair" to me, but 'Insulting' to me, as well.

I honestly don't believe that you meant for it to come off that way, but that's how I've recieved it.
No hard feeling though (and I do appreciate your post and your participation in this event LOL).

-Cheers

Last edited by SuperFishFan; 08-01-2009 at 11:59 PM..
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Old 08-02-2009, 06:14 AM   #14
 
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Originally Posted by SuperFishFan View Post

So saying that every post in this thread should state "Don't Try This at Home" is not only 'Unfair" to me, but 'Insulting' to me, as well.

-Cheers
This was kind of my response to your other thread suggesting to put a Trigger in a reef. It was in jest.

Nevertheless, I do think it is important that the casual reader understand that Nano reefs are very difficult projects, and should only be attempted by experienced aquarists.

Now, lets get back to the fish! Post some pictures of this project!!
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Old 08-02-2009, 08:03 AM   #15
 
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Originally Posted by Pasfur View Post
Wow. I just discovered this thread. I find it frustrating that the most experienced members of our forum, along with an experienced newcomer, are having difficulty engaging in a productive conversation.
Pasfur,

SFF and I have not really had a hard time "engaging" in conversation as we were discussing the pros and ons of different methods. If you just discovered this thread than you missed the number of very rude and belligerent posts that were posted by people just to spam the thread. These posts were deleted by Admin, and the thread was reopened for business.

That being said, I have told SFF that I am definitely excited to see how this project goes. I definitely recognize the research and experience that he has put into this and believe it will be a fun project to watch. I do, however disagree that these threads should come with a "don't try this at home" disclaimer. I think you as well as the other experienced hobbyists here agree that these build threads help the hobbyist that hasn't tried this before. For example: if I were to try a nano aquarium, I would read Kellsindell's "Itty Bitty" thread to see what type of maintenance and care goes into a pico build. If I were to try a large Aggressive tank, I would find and read a build of that sort.

I just want any further reader to know that the conversation that you read on this thread is healthy conversation, as opposed to the spam that was deleted two days ago.
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Old 08-02-2009, 09:43 AM   #16
 
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This was kind of my response to your other thread suggesting to put a Trigger in a reef. It was in jest.

Nevertheless, I do think it is important that the casual reader understand that Nano reefs are very difficult projects, and should only be attempted by experienced aquarists.

Now, lets get back to the fish! Post some pictures of this project!!
I'm sorry I jumped to conclusions... you're right, you got me on that one LOL!!

Man, I'm just so 'on guard' in this thread because of all the 'crud' that's gone on here (in the thread) 'Crud' meaning the other spam crazy posts that Admin erased (it got crazy in here for a minute LOL)!

Yep, I picked up the Tank, one lighting fixture (had to order the other one), and the Canister Filter(Haven't decided exactly on the type of media I'm gonna use intrnally yet). At the LFS, I saw that they got in something really cool,,,,,,, It's the smallest sump bio-filter I've ever seen. It's a bit expensive, but I may be taking the Canister back and going with this thang (lol). As soon as I aquire all the equipment, I'll take pics and begin posting the process for sure.

Last edited by SuperFishFan; 08-02-2009 at 09:54 AM..
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Old 08-03-2009, 01:19 AM   #17
 
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To the two or three reef-head buddies of mine following this thread; I've made a change in one of the specifics of this project. I would like to first note that this decision was made purely based on a peaked interest in something other than I had already planned for this project. I am foresaking the Coral Beauty Angelfish for this project (honestly, not because I don't feel it would flourish in this environment; because with the small size specimen that I chose, I'm absolutely positive it would). I've chosen another "focal fish" instead. I was actually sparked in wanting to go with a Flame Back Angel<pygmy species> Centropyge Acanthus (Not a 'Flame", but a FlameBack) instead of the Coral Beatuy; they're traditionally even smaller, even in their adult stage. I turned from that because I know they're one of the more agressive pygmy angels, and I am almost certain, in that size of environment, it would have no doubt bullied (probably to death) the two very small Blue Scissortail Gobies of which I'm not willing to replace.

So, I was wandering around the LFS (not my normal one, but a different one that I frequent on occassion), and I came to two decissions that, YES lol, I am asking for your input. Both fish species would work very well in this tank (I'm sure you'll agree that either will make a better choice than the Coral Beauty... in your opinions LOL

Both of these species can be purchased and are normally sold in a very petite size. Their growth rate, naturally, is very very slow, and either fish would get along with the other inhabitants very well. Most importantly I have had ultra-success in keeping the first one, and decent success at keeping the other at one time (not too long ago actually). So here's the two choices:


a.) Leopard Sharpnose Puffer <Chistmas Island variety> (juvenille - approx. 1.5 - 1.75 inches)



Very peaceful. Won't compete directly with, nor will it bully the Scissortail Gobies or any other type of Goby or Blenny. However, it will probably eventually try to go after any small shrimp or crab that I was planning to host as well. Hardy eaters and don't need traditionally alot of space. Very slow growers and are only 4" max at adulthood (from what I've reseached). Though the one or two I've kept previously never exceeded 2 - 2.5 inches.


b.) Harlequin Filefish (aka- Orange Spotted Filefish)



Now this one is tricky if you don't know what you're doing. It's actually "can be" a very hardy fish "IF" and I mean "If", you know how to feed it. It's got a great appetite for one thing.... polypy corals like Acropora coral (Staghorn coral). Now that can get expensive. But, this species has been proven to be easily weened off of live polyps, and be "fooled" (in a sense) to eating preapared foods (this can actually become a whole other thread of info). The idea is to buy fragmented pieces of Acropora coral stags (about 3- 5 inches in length) and place them on the substrate where the filefish will readily eat at it. You also should have some dead Acropora stag pieces available to mush and paste prepared foods onto. In other words, you're basically mashing prepared foods onto the stag pieces, and it sticks to the dead coral and looks like the live polyps on a live coral specimen. The filefish after about 6-8 weeks can be fully weened off of having to buy live coral to feed it.

a small juvenile (1.5 - 2 inches) can thrive in Nano, and even Pico environments IF fed the way I've explained.

Not gonna lie.... still a challenge though.



So those are my choices. My personal choice..... the Puffer


Feedback please.

Last edited by SuperFishFan; 08-03-2009 at 01:27 AM..
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Old 08-03-2009, 01:34 AM   #18
 
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i believe ive read a large arguement on this filefish ( if i ever come back across it ill gladly show you ) about how this fish CAN be trained to eat prepared foods however it NEEDS the coral in its diet for long term survival.
my thoughts on the puffer are that they are messy eaters and carry a large bio load so if going with this your going to have to be extremely careful with feeding and siphon out any of the food that they carelessly drop while attacking food.
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Old 08-03-2009, 11:31 AM   #19
 
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i believe ive read a large arguement on this filefish ( if i ever come back across it ill gladly show you ) about how this fish CAN be trained to eat prepared foods however it NEEDS the coral in its diet for long term survival.
my thoughts on the puffer are that they are messy eaters and carry a large bio load so if going with this your going to have to be extremely careful with feeding and siphon out any of the food that they carelessly drop while attacking food.

Hey OF2F, Thanks. Please let me know if you find that literature regarding the Filefish. I actually Just this morning was going through one of my past issues of TFH magazine and came across an article on Harlequin Filefish, written by the literally the first person to ever breed them successfully in captivity. In this article he backed up the fact that there is a misconception on "how impossible this fish is to maintain". He does reiterate that only an experienced aquarist should attempt to maintain this fish, but if done properly they can strive hardily! (contrary to popular opinion about the fish). He also said that if you decide to purchase one, do so from an LFS that deals directly with the wholesalers. Fortunately here in Southern California, 55%-60% of the fish trade comes into the country via LAX (Los Angeles International Airtport) and all the Tropical Fish Distributors are based within a 2 mile radius from the airport.

Many a time, I've gone down to the wholesalers with friends(i.e.- owners of LFS's that I've known), to help them purchase their store stock. It's amazing that here in the Greater Los Angeles Area (Los Angeles County, Ventura County and Orange County) LFS's have the luxury of actually picking their stock "first hand" from the Distributor and don't really have to have things mailed or shipped or trucked in (which puts even more stress on tha fish).

I say all of this because the author of the article in "TFH magzine" regarding the Harlequin FF, says that it would probably be the quitessential way to chose the healthiest filefish..... either A.) go down to the wholesaler yourself and pick a very healthy specimen,visually (which I'm fortunate to be able to do, thank GOD!) or B.) make sure you deal with a mail order situation that can overnight a delivery directly from the wholesaler( the downside being yoou can't see what you're getting, but should recieve a good specimen if you deal with a reputible mailorder tropical fish retailer.

Anyway, I'll post back with the Author's name and the issue number of the magazine when I get home.


...though I still think it may be easier with the Puffer. You're right about the potential sloppy eating habits lol, but I don't mind cleaning up after him/her at all. I love to be as hands on as possible

Last edited by SuperFishFan; 08-03-2009 at 11:36 AM..
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Old 08-04-2009, 03:09 AM   #20
 
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what's up OF2F,

Here's the info to the article I referenced in the previous post regarding the Filefish-

Article: "A New Future for the Harlequin Filefish" pgs. 64-75
Literature: CORAL magazine March/April 2009
Author: Matt Pedersen (co-founder of MOFIB)
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