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Help with 10 gallon saltwater tank

20K views 32 replies 8 participants last post by  Pasfur 
#1 ·
Alright my turn!:-D Well I'm really new at this whole saltwater aquarium thing and I need some questions answered, this is the first forum I've ever been on by the way, although my brother (scott) has been on a few. Any the who I have a 10 gallon tank and its my first aquarium, I've read a bit about them and theres alot more than I thought about it. I have six fish that I made shure were small and rather hardy but its starting to get crowded and I'm getting a 20 gallon tank soon, we're on a very low budget if you havn't noticed. I've made some goofy mistakes already and I'd prefer not to make any more so any tips would be a big help, luckily the worst thats happened is I had to take back a domino damsel because he was being a meany. I learned recently that I am supposed to turn the light off, I didn't before because my yellowtail damsel turned pale and sickly and I got nervous, I also had a spike in the amonia level and I'm working on keeping that down, I used some Ammo-Lock and reduced feeding I'm guessing thats because of the high number of fish so early (it's only about a month old tank.) I was looking at getting live rock and sand for my new tank but I don't know much about it or how to take care of it and how my fish will react to it. My current fish look pretty good but i hear they can go without many simptoms. I was also wondering why you need a blue light (I've heard you do) in your aquarium, I have one but it makes half my tank look dark and boring. I was also looking at a shrimp to get later on and im not shure what they need. Will 20 gallons be enough? I'm not shure how big we can go without my mom freaking:-?. Any information will really help so Thanks!:-D
 
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#2 ·
That's far too many fish for a 10 or even 20. Whoever sold you 6 fish for a ten gallon tank, let alone a brand new one shouldn't be working with fish. If I were you I'd return all those fish before they die, get a much larger tank, and start over. Small saltwater tanks are not for beginners. They are difficult to keep the water quality stable and you have much more time to react to common problems with a large tank. I strongly suggest you find out a lot more about keeping fish before you jump right into it.
 
#3 ·
Ok, I heard that small saltwater tanks were harder after I started it. I'll take back as many fish as I can, I heard you are suppose to have a maximum of 1 inch of fish per gallon and right now my fish are pretty small so I thought I was ok. Would a 30 gallon tank be good enough for a FOWLR for a beginner? I think thats as big as I can go without my dad chucking it.
 
#4 ·
The one inch of fish per gallon rule is applied to freshwater, but I honestly wouldn't even put ten freshwater fish in a 10 gallon tank. The rule for saltwater is one fish per 10 gallons. I also see you have a puffer. Puffers can only be housed alone, with other aggressive fish, or with large docile fish. So you need to make sure you can bring him back most importantly.
30 gallon is a decent start, although a 55 or so is usually reccomended. You'll only be able to put 3 fish in there, but you'll also need inverts like shrimp, snails, and crabs so don't dispair over only being able to keep 3 fish. The inverts are the coolest part anyway I think.
For extra water volume you could put a 10g sump on the bottom of your stand too. The extra volume will be good for the water quality and you can keep your unsightly equipment down there like the heater and protein skimmer.
You can find everything you need to know about setting up a new tank all over the internet if not just here.
Good luck
 
#5 · (Edited)
I've been keeping small saltwater fish only tanks for about 20 years. In my 20 gal tanks I only had 3 fish MAX!! And they were small fish. All were no bigger than small clown size or damsel size. I would try for the 30 gal or 29 gal and go with 5 fish at most. Small fish and definitely in the EASY category.

Saltwater is a different game than freshwater, however, if you think conservatively, and buy only small, easy fish it can really be easier than freshwater. That's been my experience. In my 20 years experience with saltwater, I've never had a case of ich. In my freshwater tanks it seemed that I had outbreaks of ich every few months.
 
#6 ·
Alright, I'll try to get a 30 gallon tank as soon as I can. I can only take back the spotted puffer and banggai cardinal because I just got those for my birthday the other day and they only give you 6 days to return it so I'll try to get the 30 gallon tank put together soon for the other 4, and I'll make the 10 gallon into a freshwater tank hopefully. I'll have to do more research on the equipment, I still dont even know what a sump and protein skimmer are for. Thanks for the info guys it really helps!
 
#7 · (Edited)
And, just out of curiousity, how come the spotted puffer can only be housed alone, with other aggressive fish, or with large docile fish? My puffer isn't aggressive and he gets his fair share of food so...
 
#10 ·
Puffers are carnivorous and will become aggressive when they're big enough to actually eat other fish. Not to mention that any inverts would be decimated immediately by a puffer because they use shellfish to keep their teeth in check.

I'm assuming by "spotted puffer" you mean a green spotted puffer? A 25-30 gallon tank is the absolute bare minimum for a GSP at adult size too.

Pasfur's right, but I think the one fish/10g rule is a pretty safe general rule to follow for normal sized beginner fish like clowns and stuff. You just have to make sure you're not buying a fish that'll get a foot long or something
 
#8 ·
I want to add some comments about the number of fish. There really is not a good general rule of thumb for how many fish you can keep in a saltwater aquarium of a given size. Typically in a marine environment, factors other than space determine the numbers of fish, such as species selection and diet.
 
#11 · (Edited)
I'm not shure what it is, the store said it was a spotted puffer, it highly resembles a stars and stripes puffer but without the stripes, the maximum size is 2" according to them. I have been researching the fish I buy and all of them are pretty small. I know it will be along time before I can get a decent sized fish. Also I searched on google and found that amung the many spotted puffer fish (green spotted puffer, black spotted puffer, white spotted puffer....) this was the only one called "spotted puffer." It highly resembles the white spotted puffer but has smaller spots and is smaller in size, also i've never seen it puff. And it says it can grow up to 5". I found some info on http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.liveaquaria.com/images/categories/product/p-73447-Spotted.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm%3Fc%3D15%2B39%2B260%26pcatid%3D260&usg=__sBUG74W5hwIooqjtWI45BX7iLYg=&h=360&w=360&sz=26&hl=en&start=15&tbnid=EJ4UHnSs0TqgFM:&tbnh=121&tbnw=121&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dspotted%2Bpuffer%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den ="The Spotted Puffer is also called the White Spotted Sharpnose Puffer, or White Spot Hawaiian Puffer."
 

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#12 · (Edited)
Before you set up their more "permanent" home, take this into consideration:

The Substrate you have in the bottom of the tank now is aquarium gravel. It is very large in size and allows for room between particles. This is a definite detritus trap. All the uneaten food and poop will settle into the spaces between the particles, and in no time will break down into Nitrates and eventually Phosphates. This will lead to algae outbreaks. The uneaten food and dissolved fish waste go especially for that Puffer. They are notorious messy eaters, and carry a huge bioload for a small fish.

There are two general rules to follow for Substrate: 1) Use Aragonite, sugar sized fine sand. 2) Make your sand bed either less than 1" deep, or 4-6" deep (DSB). The latter (deep sand bed) is a better form of filtration. 4" under the surface of the sand, anaerobic bacteria form and break down the Nitrates in the tank into harmless nitrogen gas, which leaves the system naturally.

To go along with the DSB, use a good amount of Live Rock. I prefer about 2/3 of my tank to be filled with Rock, on top of my Deep Sand Bed. The same anaerobic bacteria that thrives under the deepest part of the sand also resides in the deepest part of the rock. These two things, along with a Quality Protein Skimmer, form the basics of marine fitration.

With all that being said, what kind of filtration are you currently using? Wet/dry systems, canister filters, hang on filters; these all become detritus traps and need constant maintenance. I use what is called the "Berlin" method, I bleieve, Live Rock, Live sand and a protein skimmer. That is my filtration.

Set up a 40 breeder, or 55 long, and give these fish some swimming room. But even more important than swimming room is water volume. The larger the water volume, the easier to maintain the system. As toxins are introduced into the system, 55 gallons would dilute better than 20.

There are a lot of things to take into consideration when starting a saltwater tank. Let us know step-by-step what you are doing before you transfer your livestock, and we can offer good advice to help your system thrive:-D.
 
#13 · (Edited)
Ok, I've decided that I'm going to take back my puffer because I plan to have invertebrates someday and I prefer them to be unharmed, and I'm taking back my cardinal because I dont have the correct food and I need more space. I'm picking up a 30 gallon tank tommarrow because its the biggest I can get. I plan to use a fine live sand and I've talked to someone about 35lbs of LR for $1.50/lb, although I don't know what kind of sand to get or how many lbs would be good for a 30 gallon tank (I don't want to buy too much or too little). My LPS don't have much variety, especially for saltwater fish and equipment. I'm not shure how to get more "water volume" yet so I'll have to read up on it. I currently have a Penguin 100 power filter but I plan on taking it back and getting a Penguin 150, Im not shure what filters are good but theres not many at the stores. Also, I'm not shure how to enter live sand/rock into a brand new aquarium, is it like other decor or do I have to treat it first? And I also learned that live rock is supported by light, do I still have to turn the light off at night? I've been turning it off for 12 hours each night, is that enough/too much?
 
#14 · (Edited)
The penguin 150 is still not going to be a good filter, i believe i've seen Pasfur recommend a HOB skimmer that was under100 bucks. I would go with something like that. Also the live sand and live rock will need to be cured before the critters are put into their new home, and it will probably need to go through a mini cycle too, If you are setting this up in a new tank, all that will consist of this is putting all the rock and sand in the tank and letting it sit for a few days to a week or so. Read up on cycles and curing.

water volume can be increased by using that 10 gallon tank you have as a sump, a place to put the heater, maybe a small refugium, and your skimmer. Eliminating much of the clutter on the display tank. This will increase your water volume to roughly 40gallons.


here is a good read for you:

The Berlin and Live Sand Method

there might be a better read, but this one seemed informative
 
#18 ·
here is a good read for you:
The Berlin and Live Sand Method
there might be a better read, but this one seemed informative
I just read this article. Very good information from a great source, Albert Theil. I was particularly interested in the date of this article, dated 1997. Here we are, 12 years later, and we are still fighting to get this information out to some of the LFS and hobbyists.

On the subject of Live Rock curing, most of the information that is in this article refers to live rock which is uncured. Generally, when buying live rock today, the rock will have all been cured prior to purchase. You have no need for the steps described in this article, such as scubbing the rock and allowing it to dry cure on a plastic sheet. When you purchase your rock, just wrap it with wet newspaper (wet with water from his aquarium.) When you get home, place the rock into your display, prior to adding fish. Then test for ammonia and nitrite over the next week or so until both read zero. This may happen within a few days, but you still want to wait a couple of weeks to allow for everything to become stable prior to adding fish.

In the early weeks of your system you should add very few fish. Much more important that the cycling process of ammonia and nitrite, is the maturing process of the overall aquarium environment. As Wake mentioned, keep an eye out for copepods and amphipods. These are little "bugs" that move about in your sand. You will also experience a diatom bloom, which is basically a brown dusting of algae that covers your sand and rocks. This diatom bloom will go away on its own as the system matures, generally after 4 to 6 weeks. Finally, you will begin to see some good coraline algae growth, which is a purple colored algae that SLOWLY covers your rock. It almost looks like red fingernail polish, not to be confused with red slime algae (cynobacteria), which has a thicker ugly appearance and spreads like wildflowers.

After a period of 6 to 8 weeks all of these things will have occured. Copepods and amphipods will flourish. The diatom bloom will have gone away. Coraline algae will begin to spread over the rock. At this point your aquarium is "mature" and capable of supporting life, including corals, anemones, and fish, assuming you have the experience, light, and dedication to keep the animals you wish to purchase.

Now, lets talk about the important stuff. The long term success of your system will depend first on the patience you have with the above steps, allowing the system to mature before going fish crazy. Just as important, and more of a long term challenge, will be TESTING AT HOME for alkalinity and calcium, and taking the appropriate action to adjust the levels of each. You have to buy these test kits, and you have to adjust these levels. I personally use Kent Marine Superbuffer DKH to maintain my alkalinity between 8 and 12 DKH. I use Kent Marine Liquid Calcium (Calcium chloride) to maintain calcium between 400ppm and 460 ppm. These two readings depend on each other, so supplementing and maintaining both has to be done together, and should be charted and tested weekly at minimum.

Presently your biggest important decision will be what Protein SKimmer you purchase. Before we make any suggestions, we need to know how serious you are about using that 10 gallon as a sump. If this is not possible, then we need to discuss HOB skimmers. (Hang On Back) Meaning skimmers that hang on the back of your aquarium.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Ok, the live rock I am buying is from an active aquarium. Do I still have to cure it? I know I have to let it sit in the tank with the sand for a week or two to adjust, do I have to clean it still? The tank it is coming from is beautiful and well maintained. What kind of sand would be good for my tank? I dont know what it should contain or what brands are good, I also noticed that some bags have water with the sand, is that better than the dry sand or is any "aragonite" sand good? I also dont know what brand of skimmer I should get or how many GPH it puts out, and I dont know what a HOB is. Also (last one!!) what does a sump do and how do I set it up in my aquarium (I'll try to read up on it, I just prefer insurence from you guys.)
 
#16 · (Edited)
Start by reading this: Understanding Sumps, in the sumps and refugiums subforum. This will help you to understand the nature and functionality of a sump. Basically a sump is a place to where the display tank drains into. Most of the time it includes the heater, Skimmer, a refugium (a place that the water moves slowly over with a deep sand bed and macroalgae) and a return pump. The water is oxygenated by traveling down the standpipes to the sump, and the surface is skimmed of all the muck that forms on top of the water as it enters the overflow box.

Your best bet is to buy what is known as a reef ready tank, it has overflows installed and holes drilled in the bottom. You can also choose to drill the holes yourself, check out onefish2fish's build: OneFish2Fish's New one, Round One. He drilled the holes for his overflow box, and installed the overflow himself.

Also, read the filters section of the forum, and you will see that HOB and canister filters are not a common form of filtration in a marine tank. They act as a detritus trap, and cause a nitrate spike, ultimately resulting in high phosphates and an algae bloom.:shock:

If you put Live Sand in your aquarium (this will be sold in bags with water in them), you will have the beneficial bacteria and the little critters that dwell in the sand. Add either less than 1" of depth, or 4-6" of depth, nothing in between. Very little die off will occur, and your sand should cycle in a few days, maybe a week. You will be able to tell the cycle is over once nitrites and ammonia read zero.

This brings me to my next point: buy test kits. You will be testing pH, Nitrite, Ammonia, Nitrate, salinity, calcium, alkalinity, magnesium. The last three are more important to test for if you are doing a reef setting, but they should still be tested for in any saltwater tank.

Live rock that comes from an established aquarium will already have the beneficial bacteria as well, as long as it doesn't take too long of a trip out of the water. Again test ammonia and nitrite to make sure any die off from transport has stopped.

After the tank cycles, you will want it to mature. First you will get a reading of zero Nitrites, zero Ammonia, close to zero Nitrates, and a pH of 8.3.Then shortly after that, you will see a diatom bloom: it looks like rust colored algae covering the rocks and sand. After that subsides, you will see the presence of small reef creatures, such as copepods and amphipods. These are really hard too see, as they are small, but a close patient eye can pick them up.At this point your tank is in the earliset stage of mature.

After this start to add fish. One at a time is best, quarantining them for three weeks beforehand to make sure they are free of disease and eating properly.

This is a lot of info to swallow in one sitting. I know that it doesn't directly help your situation, as you have fish that have to move, but this is the most correct way to set up a marine tank.

What are your ultimate plans with this tank?

:)
 
#17 ·
Alright, all of this REALLY helps.:-D The tank I am getting doesn't have an overflow box or standpipes I don't think, It is a used tank that was once used for a single saltwater fish. It is all I can afford and it might be a while before I can start putting together a sump, especially because the fish I have will have to live in this ten gallon tank until the 30 is fit for them. The person who is selling me the live rock doesn't live too far away so I think that the live rock will be fine and I have to wait till I know the dimensions of the new tank before I can calculate how much live rock to purchase. I take my water to get tested once a week at my LPS, is that often enough? It doesn't tell salinity or calcium though. For this tank I just plan to have live rock and sand, a few fish and some inverts, just to learn how to take care and handle any situations before it gets too major. I plan to have a reef setup someday but I need to learn the basics first. How many inverts can be in this tank?
 
#20 ·
Alright, the growth of the live rock sounds very interesting! I'll see if I can pick of some test kits at my LPS, I saw one that did everything but alkalinity and calcium so I'll have to keep looking. I don't think I can get a sump just yet. I still have to buy a lot of things and my fish are going to be in there for a while more. So I'll probbly get a HOB skimmer. I read that you need one that puts out 5 times GPH than the amout that is in the tank, is this true? Are there any good brands for HOB skimmers?
 
#21 ·
#22 ·
Ok, so I took back the fish yesterday and I'm going to go look at protein skimmers today. I dont have the tank yet unfortunatly, the lady is taking forever to get it down from her attic. I don't know if the guy I was talking to still has the live rock or not, I really hope he does, I'm not shure if I can afford storebought live rock yet.:-? I read that power heads keep water flowing through live rock and keeps them from clogging, do I need these? If I do how many? I was looking at some and they were $17, $19, $25 and $29 dollars (from smallest to biggest.) Are these too cheap? I dont know what brand to get. And for this 30 gallon FOWLR tank without a sump how will maintinence be?
 
#23 ·
Look for hydor koralia, probably a 2 & a 3. You can find them at dr foster & smith (online). Maintenance will be everyday. I add a gallon to top of any evaporation. I test calcium and alkalnity every day to every other. I do a 10% water change every month (or sooner if tests suggest I do so). I check temp every day, and salinity once a week. I feed small pellet feedings twice a day, and frozen food for the fish every third day. I feed my corals every other day, and my anemone once twice a week (that obviously doesn't apply to a FOWLR).

My fiancé complains that I spend too much time with my fish.
 
#24 ·
The Koralia's are very nice, one of the best on the market. However, if cost is a huge issue, I have had a long standing relationship with the Maxi Jet brand. They are rather versatile and have a great suction cup brace that is reliable and holds them in place. They are also readily available for under $20.

The nice thing about these units is that they have many uses. You can easily move them to a terrarium to power a sponge filter, or on a quarantine application. They also have decent head pressure and are great for pumping water from a vat into your aquarium or sump.
 
#25 ·
I think that the Maxi Jet sounds good for me. So I have to get two (2+3?) Where do I face them? I do some of that maintinence stuff already, I still have to find tests, I've been taking my water in once a week to test it (it will be more once I get my license renewed again.)
 
#26 ·
You had your fish in the tank before it finished cycling? Really, you put yourself in a difficult situation. Do you have a skimmer? Any cured live rock? We are not trying to scare you off, but it seems like you are not starting out on the right foot. You made the right choice to start asking ?s on here. For quicker responses, I would join reefcentral.com. Just a side note, if you do join there, idk if I would tell them everything you have said here. Some members on there take fish keeping super, super serious. They will just give you a hard time.
 
#27 · (Edited)
Sorry about the previous post.. I could have swore that I read all your posts before asking some of those ?s. Hopefully I can be some help rather than badgering you lol. The maxi jets can basically be placed wherever you want them. It is all a matter of personal preference. Basically, you just want them to keep any detritus from settling to quickly on the sandbed or bb. It is also beneficial to the fish to have some random flow in the tank. Api reef master test kit at pet smart will suffice. You want to be able to test for as much as possible. This will help you and others determine the root of any problems in your tank.
 
#28 ·
The 10 gallon I have right now is basically a freshwater thank with saltwater contents. I will look for a reef master test kit next time I go to petsmart. I think I have most of the information I need to start putting together my new tank, I just hope my fish can stay healthy for a few more weeks.:-? I have been reading lots of books about saltwater aquarium equipment, setups, fish and inverts and see why my tank is such a screw up.:cry: But hopefully all that will be in the past soon enough!
 
#29 ·
Another question that just crossed my mind is, how much salt should I be adding per gallon? I use red sea salt right now and it says to use 1.4lbs (or something) per gallon but I don't have a scale that precise so I did lots of math and now I have to use a bunch of small measuring spoons. I heard on a video to use 1/2 a cup per gallon and thats about twice as much as I use!:shock: So if anyone can clear the air it will REALLY help.
 
#30 ·
look for a refratometer, ebay has them pretty cheap. this will be a pretty accurate way of checking the salinity of the water and is more accurate then hydrometers. if your doing a reef i would keep the salinity at 1.025 but if its fish only i would keep it lower to better prevent disease. stable is key and premixing your salt water in a seperate food safe container/tank with powerhead and heater atleast 24 hours in advance with RO/DI water is best.
 
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