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Help with dying Mollies

This is a discussion on Help with dying Mollies within the Livebearers forums, part of the Freshwater and Tropical Fish category; --> Hi LasColinasCichlids, I am also surprised that they seem to school with the platys. Doesn't make sense to me, but that seems to be ...

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Help with dying Mollies
Old 07-02-2011, 09:26 PM   #11
 
Hi LasColinasCichlids,

I am also surprised that they seem to school with the platys. Doesn't make sense to me, but that seems to be what is happening.

I appreciate the advice. Being the stubborn and somewhat sentimental person I am, I will probably ignore your advice in the short term (so I can keep my fish) and hope things work out. If I see troubles in the future, I'll probably try to take them back.

Please keep the advice coming. The fact that I'm ignoring your advice doesn't mean that I don't think it's sound. I just have a hard time giving up any of my fish, i get attached easily.

BFD
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Old 07-02-2011, 09:39 PM   #12
 
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Originally Posted by BadFishDaddy View Post
Hi LasColinasCichlids,

I am also surprised that they seem to school with the platys. Doesn't make sense to me, but that seems to be what is happening.

I appreciate the advice. Being the stubborn and somewhat sentimental person I am, I will probably ignore your advice in the short term (so I can keep my fish) and hope things work out. If I see troubles in the future, I'll probably try to take them back.

Please keep the advice coming. The fact that I'm ignoring your advice doesn't mean that I don't think it's sound. I just have a hard time giving up any of my fish, i get attached easily.

BFD
I totally understand! I too can be stubborn! I think most people are! lol
As long as you know what the possibility is, you wont be surprised and can be prepared to address the situation when it arises. And I love the straight up honesty you provided! That's totally awesome!!!
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Old 07-03-2011, 10:15 AM   #13
 
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Amanda has answered your question from post #9 and I agree with her.

If you read our profile of the Serpae Tetra, you will note it mentions how this fish can vary in the level of its aggressiveness, and it mentions why this might be, so I won't repeat all that. Suffice it to say, you are taking a risk, and the loser unfortunately will be your fish if things turn nasty, as they likely will.

As I mentioned previously, fish send out chemical signals that other fish read. We can sometimes see evidence of this, sometimes not [more on this momentarily]. Characins need a group, and the more the better. There is ample evidence and now scientific studies have proven that when maintained in groups less than five, aggression is significantly increased. It is the fish's only way to "lash out" at what they find very frustrating. The same reaction occurs in too small a space. I linked the scientific study in a post a few weeks back; it would take me some time to dig it out, I think it was in the "Freshwater Aquarium" section that I posted it.

Stress is known to weaken the fish's immune system, just as it does in humans, and I suspect all animals. This means the fish is at greater risk of picking up disease; what it would normally be able to fend off, it can't. It also affects the fish's metabolism in ways that we cannot discern. When aquarists comment that a fish just suddenly died, it is often due to some internal factor, and many of these can be directly related to stress. There is no doubt that fish will be healthier the more we can eliminate stress in the aquarium.

We create an artificial environment for our fish; they are prisoners in the tank, and cannot escape from what we create for them. The artificial environment we provide for fish has a far greater impact that what we provide for any other animal, because fish are confined to the water and it is limited. As a simple example: in its natural habitat, small fish and large fish can co-exist, but these same fish would not work in an aquarium. If the large fish is aggressive, the small fish can simply flee the area; but this can't occur in the aquarium. The fish is prisoner to everything in the water, and its natural instinct to escape is thwarted, and the fish succumbs in time.

I acquired a group of Emperor Tetra and Rainbow Emperor Tetra several months back. These are "peaceful" fish. I put the group in my 5-foot 115g tank. There were 12 of them, so a good sized group and in what should have been more than sufficient space for this species. All seemed fine, until one day I noted all the other fish in the tank were over in the right half of the aquarium; a group of 3-4 of the Emperor males were in the left. This went on for several days. I finally observed that if one of the other fish attempted to enter the left half, one of the Emperor would turn toward it, and the fish would immediately retreat. There was no physical contact. But clearly the Emperor were making it clear that the left half of the tank was their area, period. I knew this couldn't go on or all the other fish would be severely stressed, so |I moved the Emperors to the 90g with different fish. All seemed fine for a couple weeks, then the same thing occurred, only this time the fish that had been in the 90g spent all their time in the upper left area. The Emperor occupied the remaining 3/4 of the tank. After a few days, the Emperors were removed; within less than an hour, the other fish were back swimming the length of the tank, interacting with each other. The "threat" was gone.

Often, as Amanda very accurately mentioned, inherent traits emerge more as fish mature. We cannot change what nature has programmed into a species. But we have a responsibility to know and understand it, and try to accommodate it. Anything less is not fair to the fish that are captive in our tanks.
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Old 07-04-2011, 04:09 PM   #14
 
Salt?

I'm not entirely sure but I also think mollies thrive in brackish water then freshwater. The salt seems to lower stress levels and aids in respiratory functions. I didn't read all the post so I'm not sure if I'm repeating information already given, but hopefully some can confirm this.

MetalArm3
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Old 07-04-2011, 04:58 PM   #15
 
Hi Byron,

Point taken. I'll try to take the serape tetras back to the fish store.

Thanks,

BFD
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Old 07-04-2011, 04:59 PM   #16
 
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I'm not entirely sure but I also think mollies thrive in brackish water then freshwater. The salt seems to lower stress levels and aids in respiratory functions. I didn't read all the post so I'm not sure if I'm repeating information already given, but hopefully some can confirm this.

MetalArm3

Hi MetalArm3,

I'm not sure I have mentioned it, but I do give my fish salt...Probably not as much as the Mollies would like, but there is some in there (I can't remember the amount, but I found a recommended amount somewhere and did that. I look it up and add salt with my water changes too).

BFD
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Old 07-04-2011, 05:47 PM   #17
 
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Hi MetalArm3,

I'm not sure I have mentioned it, but I do give my fish salt...Probably not as much as the Mollies would like, but there is some in there (I can't remember the amount, but I found a recommended amount somewhere and did that. I look it up and add salt with my water changes too).

BFD
This is something I do not recommend. With mollies, fine; with other livebearers, OK. But with soft water fish, no. Only as a specific treatment, and then not with certain fish that find salt even more stressful than some other medications.

Even livebearers do not need it, molly included, but their physiology is geared to harder water and they seem better able to manage.

Using salt regularly is like taking aspirin or Tylenol all the time, thinking it will supposedly prevent something. It won't, as we all know. Keep the fish water clean, it will be healthier.

I recently posted at length on salt, some will be getting tired of seeing this blurb, so here is a link to that thread so you can have a read and see the science behind my view; post #9 in this thread:
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Old 07-04-2011, 09:19 PM   #18
 
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Byron... I think your salt post should be a sticky in every section!!

BFD... I feel like the whole mollies like salt thing comes from the high tolerance mollies and some other livebearers (mainly guppies) have for salt. They dont need it, but have the ability to function in it. They dont need it, or even like it, they just have a higher tolerance. And yes mollies can be brackish if properly acclimated, raised it in, or wild caught in some brackish water. And its been reported that some guppies have even been acclimated to marine. I kept both guppies and mollies many times. The majority of my fish thrived, all without the use of salt. Salt is a good thing to have on hand, as it is a great medicine when needed. Clean and stable water parameters along with the right space and environment, the right tankmates, temp, and correct foods and any fish will thrive.

Just thought I would throw my 2 cents in on the salt subject. :)
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Old 07-04-2011, 09:30 PM   #19
 
Hi LasColinasCichlids,

Once again, Thanks for the input. I'll stop adding salt to my tank. I usually do it with water changes (which I will be doing tomorrow) so there will be less salt from now on.

I think all my fish are pretty compatible except for the Serape Tetras. Of course I thought they were fine too, so I'll have to do some research to make sure everything else is OK together.

Keep the advice coming if you have any.

BFD

BYRON: Thanks for the links. They are very informative. I have bookmarked the link to the fish myths. Fortunately, I have not been a believer of all most of them, just fell into the one with the salt, but that's why I joined this site...so I could learn more.

Thanks again.

BFD
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Old 07-04-2011, 09:42 PM   #20
 
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The only advice I can think of for you is that since I see in your signature you have upside down catfish... is to not add cories to the same tank as them. Upside down cats can be rather territorial or mean to cories, or so I have read.

Not that you were or are planning to add cories, but just something to keep in mind in case you ever do think about it. :)

If you have ANY questions or need advice about anything fishy... dont hesitate to post on TFK!! There are plenty of us who can help. I am always learning new things, and often just stroll through threads reading to see if there is anything new I can learn. And Byron is by far one of the helpful and knowledgeable members I have come across. He really knows his stuff and he is super nice.
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