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Have you seen one?

This is a discussion on Have you seen one? within the Livebearers forums, part of the Freshwater and Tropical Fish category; --> Originally Posted by BWG Wikipedia is what it is, however I've found the science parts to be very on point when it comes to ...

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Old 03-18-2014, 12:54 AM   #11
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BWG View Post
Wikipedia is what it is, however I've found the science parts to be very on point when it comes to information and also pretty up to date when it comes to thing like nomenclature changes. The sources are there to be checked.

Poecilia systemics are confusing to say the least. Some researcher split off genera, others include subgenera. It's in need of a revision. Phylogenic tests have shown Acanthophacelus (guppy subgenera) and Micropoecilia (genera or subgenera depending) to be sister taxon to Mollienesia, Limia, and Pamphorichthys. So mollies are more closely related to Limia than they are to guppies.

I honestly do not buy that video. You're telling me that crossbreeding species would result in homogeneous fish after one generation that differ only in the color of the unpaired fins. You're mixing genes so to me it is more likely that some would take more after one parent over the other. Instead you have identical fish. It's not that easy to fix a type.
I'm not telling you anything except that it's hard to find such proof with full fact online. The video was simply an example like my wiki quotes. =) I quite like the wiki myself, but several things must be checked or re-examined since users do update randomness or what they think personally but do not know for fact.

I wish I could give a full answer, and said specifically that I could not since it is hard to find such online, or even real photos, but I do not have any that I know for sure. You gave a tidbit from World Records that is like full fact, therefor proving the possibility if it though.

All of my current babies may or may not be since they DO hold sperm and can do so for up to a year, but I did have a female living with only other females and male guppies for six months, so I am hopeful but never know(she pops monthly and has for more than a year even without any male mollies being around for for half of that time). But if I get any from the ones not with males that I breed, I'll be sure to post some photos. lol I have mine living together in my 55 gallon tank...mollies and guppies that is. That means nothing, but currently I am intending to take a few of my babies that were just born and grow them elsewhere away from males(I've gotten pretty good at telling males apart early before they get in boy parts, but I'll have to be very watchful and wont neglect that info if I miss any), and see if I can crossbreed them, and see if they, or if any, come out healthy and what they'd look like. I had some pretty pale gold babies born last night that were creamsicle/silver lyretail mixes with whoever day was(I assume either one of my other of the same mix or my only other male which is a black molly with gold fins), I figure they'd be interesting candidates. If I succeed as planned, perhaps I can get some final proof video for you guys.
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Old 03-18-2014, 09:32 PM   #12
 
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It just came to my attention that I was sounding confrontational and I apologize, I was not intending to. I like the info that was given and can agree, just wanted to add my own input on them. ^_^ I'm as interested in the stuff as a lot of people are.
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Old 03-19-2014, 12:29 AM   #13
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Can't speak for others, but I personally didn't read that into your replies and hope you didn't into mine. I actually found the thread to be interesting.
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Old 03-19-2014, 12:47 AM   #14
 
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Nah, but it's hard to tell in writing, I just wanted to make sure people knew I wasn't trying to go for any fighting just in case, sometimes people think I'm arguing with them when I'm simply curious, and I imagine it's the same for others too. lol

So does anyone know of any photos or videos of hybrids they know for a fact are real? I would like to see some that have facts behind them because I know they exist, but because of how rare it is are hard to find. :3 I've had mollies and guppies together for quite a while, but only recently did some of my males take interest in the female mollies, and those were ones I raised together with other molly fry from birth pretty much. Perhaps that's a factor in there. The others don't pay much attention to them nor vice-verca...though I DID have a male that loved everyone, didn't matter what it was, guppy, molly, gourami, corydora....though I have seen a few others chase gouramis on occasion THAT male was after everyone and everything, I even saw him trying to poke a plant. xD He was weird.

Also, if those fish in the video aren't muppies, any idea what they really are? They sure looked like they had guppy in them just from the colors on the tails, but were mollies otherwise. And if they're not hybrids, or are of some form, I'd like to know. They look pretty good for big males, and those colors are appealing. I see why people try. I'm trying it for that outcome, but health is so hard to...well, guess at. Especially since guppies are more prone than most to have disabilities already, like curved spines and the like. I've never had mollies come out with issues, but both with platies and guppies(much rarer on platies) I've had one or two every so often get a messed up back or tail. Interbreeding them, if it succeeds, would surely up those chances.

It'd be nice if we could find jpepe1 and others interested some real photos and/or videos. =)
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Old 03-19-2014, 08:15 AM   #15
 
Thanks everyone there is a lot of info here.Just my thought ,the fish in post 5 seems to have a bit of a bent spine between the dorsal fin and tail,that is something I wouldn't expect to see in a Limia vittata.Wouldn't that be more common in a guppy x mollie cross?
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Old 03-19-2014, 11:08 AM   #16
 
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I did a little googling and found these excerpts:

"Yes! I have pics! taken today with the new 'fish' setting i found on my camera! let me know what you think, beacuse i am so sure she's half half, ive never had her mother (a molly) in with any male mollies, only guppies. im sure of it. her name is baby, (a name that stuck) she is about, well, nearly a year now i think x





WOW i have always pondered about my cross fish, but i searched google for details and found this, is this TRUE??!! if so, wow!!! i neve knew it! maybe this is what happened??? bizarre eh?

;
'Female mollies have the amazing ability to become pregnant without a male molly.

All in takes is stimulation by a male fish of any other similar species like guppies, swordtails or platties. The male is not the father of the fry and the babies are not cross-breeds. Penetration by the male simply serves to stimulate the female into producing young that are effectively clones of their mother.

This process is called parthenogenesis and is found in many insects and some frogs as well as mollies."

"A mollie can store sperm from a male for up to 5 sets of fry. So don't think she is done having little ones here for a while. Guppies and mollies both are livebearers and classified under the same family Poeciliidae (containing more than 300 species of fish). While there are possiablities of cross breeding it isn't likely and those fish that are crossed are known as mules, since they rarely live to adulthood and are incapable of reproducing. "

"I disagree, mollies and guppies are different species and do not produce offspring. I kept fish for 40+ years and never had those two cross breed, even though they were kept together. It would be like trying to breed chickens with ducks. Doesn't work."

"Mollies and Guppies are both Poecilia. I'm assuming the above posters know nothing about the subject or otherwise would have refrained from making those comments. Yes, you can cross the two species. If you cross a male molly with a female guppy you will kill your guppy. If you cross a female molly with a male guppy you MIGHT get fry and some MIGHT survive and they MIGHT not have the genetic defects common in such a cross but you won't EVER be able to produce viable offspring from the crosses themselves as they are essentially mules, and those that have been successfully bred have never survived to produce a viable breeding population which is why you don't see Gollies in the stores everywhere. They come out deformed and have a lot of genetic problems.

If you care about your fish not harassing each other do yourself a favor and either start a separate tank for the Mollies, or just get rid of them and concentrate on Guppies, (or vice versa).

If you can't do that, at the very least get a breeding net/ tank which floats in the main tank and keeps the mom fish separate from the rest of the fish.

Either way DON'T add any more fish until your tank is cycled!

Here is a picture of a Gollie."

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Old 03-19-2014, 11:58 AM   #17
 
I have a number of virgin female mollies and it would be not hard to get male guppies.It would be an interesting project ,to a point.I'm constantly ranting against the ethical existence of balloon mollies and I'd be uncomfortable trying this.Even if you got healthy ,viable young the only resposible thing to do would be to destroy them as to protect the genetic integrity of both species;even though domestic mollies are considered to be crosses themselves.I'm thinking this one may be best left on a chalkboard to debate and not attempted.
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Old 03-19-2014, 12:01 PM   #18
 
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LOL! Ethical? I have to laugh because our species have done some pretty interesting things to guppies, bettas, and especially goldfish. It's a wonder these fish can swim!
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Old 03-19-2014, 12:17 PM   #19
 
I said I'm not comfortable trying this I never said you should not be comfortable trying this.My beliefs are just that...mine.
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Old 03-19-2014, 01:04 PM   #20
 
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Those fish in post#16 are awesome.
Man has produced some pretty extreme dog and cat breeds as well. Also pigs, cattle, chickens, crop plants... I'm not sure which side I'm on though, I wouldn't be too comfy crossing species, but I love the results that appear in post #16... also my cats are not "pure" breeds so...
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