Guppy cloned itself? Can they? - Page 2 - Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources

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post #11 of 27 Old 06-17-2014, 07:20 PM
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RackinRocky, so I just have to wait for the balloon bellies

OK, now I see much waiting in the future for some of the balloon bellies. I do have some at 4 months, but I better wait it out for the rest -- amazing how what started out as normal-shaped turn into BB Mollies. I know that this is a hybrid, supposed to be more fragile, but you should see my BB Gold Dust Sailfin Dad -- he is the big boss of the tank, all the others kowtow to him. And he is small as males go -- have some much bigger males that run away from him. They say this is true of Cremesicle, they are also the bosses of their tanks (don't have any of those). But he certainly seems to be strong and aggressive, and randy.

So they will all be balloons then, that says something about the genetics of BB Mollies. What happens if half of a pair is BB and the other half is normal shaped? Will the fry be mixed, some BB and some not? Or all normal shaped? I do have other females in with this BB male -- in a community tank -- and want to know what to expect if fry are born? I will say that he seems to ignore the normal marble females and the teenage ones, maybe he is waiting until the young are his size? This is pretty hysterical -- I need a treatise on the genetics of BB Mollies...

30G, 20G, 20G & 10G Community tanks of Mollies: Silver,
Sailfin, Dalmatian, Lyretail, Gold Dust, Harlequin, Black
10G Teenage Mollies, some becoming males now ~8 mo.
10G Teenage Mollies, ~8 mo. & Gold Dust Sailfin BB male
20G Teenage Mollies, ~2-7 mo. mixed
10G tank for QT, & 5G mommy tank
10G new Baby Mollies ~appx. 2 wks-1 month ~150 fry
20G Corys 80 various sizes Adults 2F, 2M (& cory fry)
Snails 30+ (not Ramshorn, not Nerite)

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post #12 of 27 Old 06-17-2014, 10:07 PM Thread Starter
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Actually...it doesn't mean all will be balloons. Even balloon mollies breeding together does not insure all will have the gene. I had two that were balloons and three that were not, this was with breeding two balloons together. =)



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post #13 of 27 Old 06-18-2014, 09:25 PM
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I am certainly no fish expert, but have had some experience with animal genetics (used to breed dogs, etc) and I guess if both parents were both BB, it would be possible to get some offspring that do not balloon. That is because as Sylverclaws pointed out, they have to have the gene. And balloons haven't been around as long as the normal Molly body type, so one, some, or all could conceivably turn out to be normal bodied mollies. Both parents have to carry the balloon gene. I had two German Shepherds that were black/tan. Over half the litter of 10 were solid black. That means BOTH parents had to carry the all-black gene. I suppose the same would be true with BB mollies. There is the matter, also, of dominant and recessive genes, but that gets a little complicated for this post.

As your "macho male" balloon demonstrates, balloons can be quite healthy. Mine show no difficulty in doing what all the other fish do, with the exception of being a bit slower. (Not when it comes to eating though!) So I don't know if I agree about balloons "suffering" because of their deformities. Maybe in some, but certainly not in all.

Now, if you had a "normal" molly breed with a balloon, that is a whole different story, and you could end up with just about anything, ie; all balloon, no balloon or a percentage of balloon. Sylverclaws said she had two balloons that didn't produce all balloon fry, and that was probably because the NON-balloons were throw-backs to normal bodied mollies. This does happen in the animal world, and that is why breeding is so unpredictible. Unless that trait is absolutely FIXED, you might get a few surprises.

10 gallon- 8 Harlequin Rasboras, 1 female betta.

20 gallonH - 1 Peacock Gudgeon, 2 Skunk Cories, 1 Sparkling Gourami. , one male betta, 2 nerite snails.

55 gallon - 3 Turquoise Rainbows, 1 Boesemani Rainbow, 2 Australian Rainbow, 4 Gold Dust mollies, 1 L. Dorsigera, 2 White Cloud Mountain Minnows, 1 Honey Gourami, 3 Cherry barb, 1 Koi Angelfish, 4 female betta.
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post #14 of 27 Old 06-19-2014, 10:33 AM
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Thanks to both of you, so it is a waiting game for me

It is very good that some non-balloons will results from a BB female, have no idea who she might have mated with before I bought her. But she is healthy, her babies are very healthy, so I will just have to wait and see how they turn out.

I have some beautiful young non-BB marble mollies, the colors are outstanding. I am hoping some turn into male so they can mate with others. Is a GOLD marble molly a normal thing, or do I have some that are very interesting and different? Their gold background and black speckles are very pretty.

Even if very ordinary, they still look beautiful, and maybe will have some lyretails as well.

30G, 20G, 20G & 10G Community tanks of Mollies: Silver,
Sailfin, Dalmatian, Lyretail, Gold Dust, Harlequin, Black
10G Teenage Mollies, some becoming males now ~8 mo.
10G Teenage Mollies, ~8 mo. & Gold Dust Sailfin BB male
20G Teenage Mollies, ~2-7 mo. mixed
10G tank for QT, & 5G mommy tank
10G new Baby Mollies ~appx. 2 wks-1 month ~150 fry
20G Corys 80 various sizes Adults 2F, 2M (& cory fry)
Snails 30+ (not Ramshorn, not Nerite)

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post #15 of 27 Old 06-19-2014, 12:30 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RackinRocky View Post
I had two German Shepherds that were black/tan. Over half the litter of 10 were solid black. That means BOTH parents had to carry the all-black gene.

Hahaha, you know that reminds me of our dog Hobbes. He was an English Black Labrador Retriever. GORGEOUS dog. Both his parents were yellow labs....Sugar's(the mother) -entire- litter of 10-12(I can't remember, I just know it was in double digits) came out black. lol
Labs are funny like that, so are some other dogs. They only have the three colors: Yellow, chocolate and black. Well, some occasionally come out red or white instead of chocolate or yellow. They don't come out mixed even if you do mix them. Although...on the subject of genes here, there was one that came out half and half. His body had split the gene right down the dogs center and he was part yellow and part chocolate. I THINK they call that a chimera. I can't find that, but I did find one that looks calico, and this one of a half black and half yellow lab. http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y10...imeraadult.jpg

Genes are indeed funny things. That dog isn't a mutt either. lol



Turning on the Aquarium lamp in the morning is MY cup of coffee.
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post #16 of 27 Old 06-19-2014, 11:16 PM
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Wow! That dog is gorgeous! I've never heard of that happening. Like you said, it's almost exclusively a solid colored dog that would result.

Yes, dance lady. There are absolutely gold balloon mollies that also have white on them and black as well. This isn't a very good pic, but is the only pic I could find of the two I had.


Gumdrop and Lollipop.jpg

10 gallon- 8 Harlequin Rasboras, 1 female betta.

20 gallonH - 1 Peacock Gudgeon, 2 Skunk Cories, 1 Sparkling Gourami. , one male betta, 2 nerite snails.

55 gallon - 3 Turquoise Rainbows, 1 Boesemani Rainbow, 2 Australian Rainbow, 4 Gold Dust mollies, 1 L. Dorsigera, 2 White Cloud Mountain Minnows, 1 Honey Gourami, 3 Cherry barb, 1 Koi Angelfish, 4 female betta.
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post #17 of 27 Old 06-20-2014, 01:08 AM Thread Starter
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Ah, Leopard Balloons. =) Some of them are pretty, I like the calico ones you see sometimes too. They're spotted like leopards with the main body color being cream or orange, but the spots aren't just black, they have darker orange spots, yellow spots, white spots as well, they're pretty neat looking. Color-wise anyways. I have to say I started finding them cute after owning some, but I'm really not a fan of how they were made. They get more issues like constipation and their backs surely can't feel very good. LOL I'm not a fan of balloons because they're all severely inbred sailfin mollies for that balloon gene. Which is also a reason why the balloon gene doesn't always pass to the kids....and nor do the colors. It's such an over-bred thing though, that even if you breed balloons with a normal molly or unrelated balloon, sometimes you still get them.
On that subject...I had a pale gold(same color as the creamsicle/butterfly mollies) and a really dark orange male who had bred...one baby came out sorta brown, the others were pure white. =o



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post #18 of 27 Old 06-24-2014, 09:40 PM
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so maybe balloonbelly is Bb and normal is BB (or vice versa) so theroectically 25% would be one genne and 75% would be the other



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post #19 of 27 Old 06-25-2014, 10:52 AM
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It should be higher for Balloon bellies

It doesn't matter what the genes indicate, I have a Balloon Belly father and mother and all the babies seem to be BB. Not 25% BB and 75% normal. So I am also raising some that are BB mother and normal father to see what the babies look like. It is too early yet to tell how many are BB and how many are not. I may even have some fry that were from a normal mother and possibly a BB father. We will know after a few months when the gender and BB indication are showing up. Already I can see some that are young male BB and are chasing the young females that are BB. Will they chase a normal female is the question? I say because the father is BB and doesn't seem to care about the female normal Marble in there, who has had several sets of babies. He ignores her completely. She was pregnant before I got her...

30G, 20G, 20G & 10G Community tanks of Mollies: Silver,
Sailfin, Dalmatian, Lyretail, Gold Dust, Harlequin, Black
10G Teenage Mollies, some becoming males now ~8 mo.
10G Teenage Mollies, ~8 mo. & Gold Dust Sailfin BB male
20G Teenage Mollies, ~2-7 mo. mixed
10G tank for QT, & 5G mommy tank
10G new Baby Mollies ~appx. 2 wks-1 month ~150 fry
20G Corys 80 various sizes Adults 2F, 2M (& cory fry)
Snails 30+ (not Ramshorn, not Nerite)

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post #20 of 27 Old 06-26-2014, 01:35 AM Thread Starter
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Ah, that BB Male I had bred with a bunch of my normal females. A gold dust, two creamsicles(one of which never did have any babies from him), a white lyretail, two marbles and a black sailfin molly....not a single one came out BB, but several had his orange coloring none of my other males had, even from my white sailfin. x.x Sometimes I really wonder about those genes...obviously some people have done a great deal of research and testing with them to get their number results, but I sure didn't see them. LOL I was happy for it though!



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