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Best Livebearer fof feeder fish?

This is a discussion on Best Livebearer fof feeder fish? within the Livebearers forums, part of the Freshwater and Tropical Fish category; --> Originally Posted by adiumroot Platys and swordtails can interbreed. Both are of genus Xiphophorus Mollies and Guppies are both of genus Poecilia, however from ...

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Best Livebearer fof feeder fish?
Old 10-09-2009, 07:17 AM   #11
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adiumroot View Post
Platys and swordtails can interbreed. Both are of genus Xiphophorus
Mollies and Guppies are both of genus Poecilia, however from what I know, interbreedings are kind of rare and the offspring are mostly infertile.

I've heard about the thiaminase but only from feeder goldfish. (sorry 1077, the link you provided won't load) I haven't heard that it was present in feeder guppies/livebearers too. Breeding our own feeders is alright, especially if you take care of them well and not overcrowd them. Feeders should remain as treats only and not the main diet. It's nice to see the natural hunting behaviour once in a while.

If you're going to feed only once a month, then 2 females and 1 male would be enough, IMO. 1 female and 1 male would be possible, but a 1 is to 1 ratio leads to the male harassing and stressing out the female too much, which could lead to disease.

Edit: I googled a bit and found out that most freshwater fish do indeed contain thiaminase. However, consensus holds that feeding not more than once a week is not harmful, especially if the main diet is nutritious enough. So if it's a monthly treat, nothing to worry about except for disease, which is easily preventable given proper water quality management.


Sorry that the link would not load ,wouldn't for me either after initial try. Prolly just as well, article or study was some 97 pages total. After reading the section with regard to Thiaminase,I decided to hit the print key not knowing the extent of the rest of the study. oops! Printer was still churning out pages when I left work for the day.
As you say, If feeders are raised, as opposed to purchased, and are offered as treats on not too frequent basis,and they are fed quality foods (feeders)so that they too are of good health, then all is well. I must mention as I have before,, that some fish if given feeders too often,, will refuse to eat anything else. It then becomes a matter of fasting (starving the fish), to try and get them back on prepared ,or store bought foods.
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Old 10-09-2009, 10:14 AM   #12
 
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@1077
Wow, that's a lot of paper. Well yeah, I don't think anyone recommends feeders as staple anymore. Although I wonder about predatory fish in the wild. Don't they get vitamin B1 deficiency from all the thiaminase in the fish they eat?

@kald
Goldfish aren't any better. In fact, some even think it's worse due to their skeletons being reportedly harder to digest.
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Old 10-09-2009, 10:31 AM   #13
 
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Perhaps in the wild, they can get the vitamins on much larger scale than what is offered in prepared foods that we can provide in a closed system.?
Oddly enough,, I still see folks buying bags of feeders for their fish thinking they are providing them with nutritional food when there is actually little to no nutritonal value to be had from doing so.
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Old 10-09-2009, 11:59 AM   #14
 
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I forgot to add "anyone who does his research" as a qualifier in my previous post. hehe

It's not a hard mistake to commit. "Hey this fish is predatory in the wild. I'll feed it small fish to give it as close to a natural diet as possible!" This simple logic is actually correct. but apparently, it's not the same in reality,

I used to think the same way too a few years back. I just didn't have any predatory fish to feed feeders to. LOL

I am still puzzled at how they get their vitamins in the wild. Ah, the mysteries of nature.
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Old 10-09-2009, 12:05 PM   #15
 
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When I was much younger, I had a jack dempsey and an Oscar that I fed goldfish, and minnows left over from fishing trips, along with tadpoles,frogs,crickets,grasshoppers.and worms. They very much seemed to enjoy the foods. Wasn't till years later that I learned the error of my ways. Still feed insects and worms,but not feeders.
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Old 10-09-2009, 01:14 PM   #16
 
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I think I've found an answer for my question. simple really. And I got reminded of it from your post.

Varied diet. The predatory fish in the wild don't eat one kind of fish alone. They eat insects, worms, tadpoles, frogs, etc. That's where they get the nutrition to survive.
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Old 10-09-2009, 02:39 PM   #17
 
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Originally Posted by adiumroot View Post
I think I've found an answer for my question. simple really. And I got reminded of it from your post.

Varied diet. The predatory fish in the wild don't eat one kind of fish alone. They eat insects, worms, tadpoles, frogs, etc. That's where they get the nutrition to survive.
And to top it off, the fish they eat also get a varied diet, as opposed to being raised on cheap flake food.

That is why I have never been able to understand how feeding your fish feeders is any different from feeding them what the feeders eat!
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Old 10-09-2009, 04:18 PM   #18
 
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unless you breed the feeder fish yourself, you have no idea what they were fed and how much of it......considering feeder fish from a pet store are usually crammed into a tank with not enough space for them, this leads to alot of disease and the chance of passing that along to your own fish....I myself am not willing to take the chance of feeding fedder fish to any of my tanks, unless they are fry that i raised myself.....I am very cautious on what my fish get for food, always a varied diet and usually every 3rd or 4th day i feed nothing....In the wild, fish will not eat everyday, sometimes for a few days......the more experienced fishkeepers know their fish and there dietary requirements.....My personal opinion is that feeding twice or 3 times a day is too much, unless your raising fry or very young adolescent fish i dont see a need to........I rarely have any disease in any of my 10 tanks and usually dont have to vac the bottom very often.......I think overfeeding is the cause of alot of problems for fellow fishkeepers, from ammonia to diseases......I probably just opened a hornets nest with this post, but this is my personal opinion and was not meant to offend anyone
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Old 10-10-2009, 06:32 AM   #19
 
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Fishinpole,
I agree with you 100 percent. With the exception of feeding young fish(fry),, Nobody ever lost a fish by feeding once a day. Water quality is easier to maintain,and vaccuming the substrate isn't so critical to keep nitrAtes and other organics that can produce ammonia in check. I lost staggering numbers of fish in earlier years while learning this. Hungry fish will nearly always be healthier fish in my opinion.
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