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5.5 gal stocking question?

This is a discussion on 5.5 gal stocking question? within the Livebearers forums, part of the Freshwater and Tropical Fish category; --> Originally Posted by madyotto and as an after thought how much air do you give them and is it planted or not ? I ...

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5.5 gal stocking question?
Old 03-24-2012, 09:01 PM   #11
 
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Originally Posted by madyotto View Post
and as an after thought how much air do you give them and is it planted or not ?
I have a few grass like shoots growing and thank you I totally forgot about using facebook
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Old 03-24-2012, 09:13 PM   #12
 
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That is definately a turquoise rainbow fish, and that is just wrong to keep him in a 5 gallon. I have 2 dwarf rainbows left in a 43 gallon, and I often think my tank is too small for them. I hope you place him, and get a more appropriate fish for that tank. You could also upgrade to a bigger tank, like 50 gallons and get a nice group of rainbows :)

Gwen
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Old 03-24-2012, 09:58 PM   #13
 
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That is definately a turquoise rainbow fish, and that is just wrong to keep him in a 5 gallon. I have 2 dwarf rainbows left in a 43 gallon, and I often think my tank is too small for them. I hope you place him, and get a more appropriate fish for that tank. You could also upgrade to a bigger tank, like 50 gallons and get a nice group of rainbows :)

Gwen
second that !!!!!!!

i have 2 silver sharks with a max size of 25 CM
i wouldn't get another and i have a 4FT 39 gallon

Last edited by madyotto; 03-24-2012 at 10:06 PM..
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Old 03-25-2012, 07:49 AM   #14
 
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also in regards to your question on water cycle
in my opinion never do a water change unless the test kit indicates you need to
How ever i seriously suggest that you get a better more conclusive kit you SOOOO NEED to test the nitrate for two reasons one is to know if you are over feeding and other is in-case of a nitrate spike which may sometimes send you ph well into alkali side of things
hope this helps
I thought routine water changes were done to prevent ammonia build up? If so should I do a partial water change (1/3 of the water) weekly or biweekly?

Last edited by Katibre; 03-25-2012 at 07:58 AM..
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Old 03-25-2012, 07:52 PM   #15
 
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I thought routine water changes were done to prevent ammonia build up? If so should I do a partial water change (1/3 of the water) weekly or biweekly?
your bio filter has good bacteria on the sponge
it's job is to break down the bad bacteria

Bad bacteria's are:

Nitrite
Nitrate
Ammonia and
Influenza < (left by apple snail's and similar (but is good for Fry)

Your filter breaks down these bacteria in this way (made simple)

Fish waste create's the bad bacteria called Ammonia.

The Ammonia takes this path after the good bacteria eats it's corresponding bad bacteria

Ammonia (Into> Nitrite (Into> Nitrate

so we are only left with the Nitrate

Now this Nitrate is what can cause the problems that many fear.
Hence every one's obsession with tank cycles however this obsession is totally pointless.

The reason i say that this obsession is pointless is the fact that.

Nitrate is broken up in many many ways and if the wrong environment is created in the first place then over time this will creep up at a steady rate and finally will cause a spike which are normally deadly to your stock.
(Hence the obsession with overly frequent water changes.)

ANY WATER CHANGE WILL CAUSE STRESS. < FACT<

Now yes the fish will be less stressed if the water quality is improved,
HOWEVER far too many people do water changes as party of there weekly/monthly routine.
Causing stress with little if any improvement to the water quality in most cases.
(This is the problem that even some of the very best keepers make.)

Avoiding the stress of the water change is ALWAYS the best way.

Another way to look at it is when i used to manage my dads 800 liter (180 gallon) tank.

Do you really think we did even yearly cycles.

The answer is no never, not even once in the whole 12 years of having the tank,
with readings of 0 Ammonia or Nitrite and a very low Nitrate count 4.0 PPM AVRG.

4 KEY FACTS TO RID OF YOUR NITRATE.

1. Enough oxygen. (So plants are helpful here but not necessarily vital as we can add air stones.)

2. The amount of light
(Now you do have to keep your light on for the right amount of time for your fish, however the right sized light and power rating is vital)

3. Also over-feeding directly add's to the Nitrate and marginally to the Ammonia and Nitrite.

4. Temp also plays its part higher the better in terms of the Nitrate.
However bear in mind you would be more likely to get a bacteria infection with your fish and it would also grow faster if you did.

A Prime example of a Very Stable And adequate Environment using no chemicals or cycles is:

My 4FT Tank. (40 Gallon)

My fish need a ph of around 6.3 - 6.4 PH
(Very hard water in my area so other peoples tanks sit at about 8.0 with the water from my area.)

So i added a 3CM thick layer of aquatic peat to the back half of the tank before adding the gravel.
Now after 4.5 - 6 months after starting my tank the PH had only just dropped bellow 6.0 PH,
this is after it sitting steady at 6.5 - 6.2 for the whole time. (I do a 25% cycle after it drops bellow 6.0)

I also have a 8" (inch) air bar/curtain and 6 plants.

I use a 40 watt day light tube and give 10 hours of light.

Now as i plan to over stock a little i have used an over powered filter.
Recommended filter size is about's 400 liter an hour so i use a 600 liter an hour.


This setup means that my nitrate levels are very steady.
Also the over powered filter making sure that there is absolutely no chance of any ammonia or nitrite.

Hope the info and added understanding has helped.
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Old 03-25-2012, 08:01 PM   #16
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katibre View Post
I thought routine water changes were done to prevent ammonia build up? If so should I do a partial water change (1/3 of the water) weekly or biweekly?

If your tank is cycled you should not get ammonia, unless you are overfeeding, and because your tank is so small, it is more likely than in a larger tank. Check your water parameters regularly, until you get a feel for how often you need to do water changes with the fish you have. You will likely need to do water changes weekly (50%) in a tank that small, no matter what the other member is telling you about not doing them. Your tank is small and the smaller the tank, the more often you have to do water changes - especially because of the bioload you have in the tank.

Gwen
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Old 03-25-2012, 08:13 PM   #17
 
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If your tank is cycled you should not get ammonia, unless you are overfeeding, and because your tank is so small, it is more likely than in a larger tank. Check your water parameters regularly, until you get a feel for how often you need to do water changes with the fish you have. You will likely need to do water changes weekly (50%) in a tank that small, no matter what the other member is telling you about not doing them. Your tank is small and the smaller the tank, the more often you have to do water changes - especially because of the bioload you have in the tank.

Gwen
OH So wrong

for these reason's

every aspect of what i have just posted about keeping Ammonia and Nitrite to a 0 rely's purely on an over sized filter for your tank

every aspect that i mentioned in terms of keeping the Nitrate down is about the ratio to the amount of water in your tank

IE. the amount of air and light i give is in ratio to my amount of water and is the exact same for you my friend

the only added risk in keeping fish this way in a smaller tank is that things can change very quick weekly checks on Ammonia PH and Mainly The Nitrates will be a very good measure on how balanced your tank environment is.

do these checks for about's 4 months and then move to bi-weekly

if any of these parameters are not met then do a 25% cycle SIMPLE'S.

Ammonia should be less than = 0.35 PPM
Nitrite should be = 0 PPM
Nitrate should be between = 4.0 and 30 PPM (0 Nitrate is not as good as some make out)


but now you have a very good head start with your water chemistry you will 100% most deffinatlly need to rid of the rainbow re-house him or loose your stock no matter what you do to keep the water right it will eventually die in that tank

PS. GwenInNM how about do your research before posting things you clearly have no clue upon

AND Katibre listen to the person who you feel knows fish and water chemistry the best

Last edited by madyotto; 03-25-2012 at 08:20 PM..
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Old 03-25-2012, 09:03 PM   #18
 
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if any of these parameters are not met then do a 25% cycle SIMPLE'S.
CYCLING is about creating the bacteria needed to break down waste NOT water changes.

I suggest for one that you are not so rude so members on this forum who have been here considerably longer than you have, also the facts you provided in your post are not accurate at all.

Fish waste creates the bad bacteria called Ammonia.
Ammonia is a chemical not a bacteria. It has also been proven to effect the long term health of fish in any quantity in the water.

Cycling a tank means you have the good bacteria needed to break down chemical ammoina, other bacteria breakdown the nitrites into less toxic nitrates. Nitrates are removed with water changes and using chemical conditioner such as API Conditioner or Prime for example.

Causing stress with little if any improvement to the water quality in most cases.
How can you justify this statement, doing water changes not only improves water quality but also removes detritus and allows one to create an environment better for the fish.

Avoiding the stress of the water change is ALWAYS the best way.
Again this statement will lead to ill health of your fish as maintaining a chemically balanced system is NOT going to happen without water changes. I stock african cichlids in a 180g tank. Leaving the tank without doing a water change would cause nitrate levels to be off the charts. Water change schedules allow for any uneaten food to be vacuumed up from the bottom of the tank as well as detritus.
I cannot stock a majority of live plants as my cichlids would simply rip them to shreds, please explain how then I would be able to have zero nitrates with no plants assimilating it?








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Old 03-25-2012, 09:42 PM   #19
 
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Originally Posted by Tazman View Post
if any of these parameters are not met then do a 25% cycle SIMPLE'S.
CYCLING is about creating the bacteria needed to break down waste NOT water changes.

I suggest for one that you are not so rude so members on this forum who have been here considerably longer than you have, also the facts you provided in your post are not accurate at all.

Fish waste creates the bad bacteria called Ammonia.
Ammonia is a chemical not a bacteria. It has also been proven to effect the long term health of fish in any quantity in the water.

Cycling a tank means you have the good bacteria needed to break down chemical ammoina, other bacteria breakdown the nitrites into less toxic nitrates. Nitrates are removed with water changes and using chemical conditioner such as API Conditioner or Prime for example.

Causing stress with little if any improvement to the water quality in most cases.
How can you justify this statement, doing water changes not only improves water quality but also removes detritus and allows one to create an environment better for the fish.

Avoiding the stress of the water change is ALWAYS the best way.
Again this statement will lead to ill health of your fish as maintaining a chemically balanced system is NOT going to happen without water changes. I stock african cichlids in a 180g tank. Leaving the tank without doing a water change would cause nitrate levels to be off the charts. Water change schedules allow for any uneaten food to be vacuumed up from the bottom of the tank as well as detritus.
I cannot stock a majority of live plants as my cichlids would simply rip them to shreds, please explain how then I would be able to have zero nitrates with no plants assimilating it?









if any of these parameters are not met then do a 25% cycle SIMPLE'S.
CYCLING is about creating the bacteria needed to break down waste NOT water changes. < WRONG
you only need to cycle if your bio filter's good bacteria is loosesing the battle diluting the chemicals means they grow stronger and kill the bad bacteria/chemicals faster


i have already said IF THE WRONG environment is created then the Nitrate will CREEP

ALSO You are wrong by FACT in saying that you need api Nitrate down to kill Nitrate
I RUN A 180G for 12 years with no chemicals at all
i NEVER EVER saw any Ammonia Nitrite OR MORE THAN 7 PPM of NITRATE < AGAIN fact


\/ AGAIN SOOO WRONG \/
CYCLING is about creating the bacteria needed to break down waste NOT water changes.

the FACT of this is that all of the good bacteria needed is already living in your Bio filter

so long as you only ever wash the sponge/media in tank water NOT TAP WATER
enough of the good bacteria will STILL exist.
UNLESS your sponge is old as the good and NEEDED bacteria will only be able to live on the cleaner bit's.

REPLACE SPONGE/MEDIA every 12-18 months depending on stocking levels


IT was wrote for an armature getting technical pointlessly achieves what ?

"Ammonia is a chemical not a bacteria."

It has also been proven to effect the long term health of fish in any quantity in the water.

AGAIN WRONG
fish actually need some amount of Nitrate Do your research (LESS THE BETTER) hence why i aim at 4.0 PPM


detritus ?
IF you mean Debris then this is why we all hoover our gravel


also FRESH WATER EVEN IF TREATED WITH FRESH START (or similar product) is always harmful to fish
now this gets mega diluted and would cause very minimal effect



DO YOU READ
i don't mean to be rude but if you read it half decent you would of saw


I cannot stock a majority of live plants as my cichlids would simply rip them to shreds, please explain how then I would be able to have zero nitrates with no plants assimilating it?
ANSWER THAT WAS ALREADY POSTED \/
is
UNDER
4 KEY FACTS TO RID OF YOUR NITRATE. < as posted before

Enough oxygen. (So plants are helpful here but not necessarily vital as we can add air stones.)

it clearly state that plants are not necessarily vita as WE CAN ADD AIR STONES (i maybe should of added curtains)

also i posted 4 PROVEN WAYS TO RID OF NITRATE

if you know so much how is this for food for though

I HAVE KEPT FISH ALL MY LIFE THIS IS MY FIRST FORUM I HAVE HAD TO JOIN
but only for advise on a rare fungus

so i got help now i thought i would pass some help on

MAYBE I WONT bother if ppl who clearly have little under standing and education in this will question things
THAT I ALREADY STATED WAS 12 YEARS PROOF

Last edited by madyotto; 03-25-2012 at 09:44 PM..
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Old 03-25-2012, 09:49 PM   #20
 
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If you do NOT know what detritus is then you are ill informed with your own knowledge.

"Ammonia is a chemical not a bacteria."
It has also been proven to effect the long term health of fish in any quantity in the water.

AGAIN WRONG
fish actually need some amount of Nitrate Do your research (LESS THE BETTER) hence why i aim at 4.0 PPM....I am not talking about nitrate here, just that ammonia is a chemical not bacteria.
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