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Malaysion trumpet snails.

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Malaysion trumpet snails.
Old 02-15-2012, 02:05 PM   #11
 
LOL will do :)
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Old 02-16-2012, 01:51 AM   #12
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GwenInNM View Post
My LFS will also give them away as they are very common. I didn't know about the soft water thing. I have lots of little ones in my GBR tank, and have soft/acidic water in there. Is there anything I can do (such as add calcium) so they live? My other tank, I'd love to have MTS, but my loaches gobble them up (I'm guessing) as I've never seen any. I know they hide in the sand, but by now, I'd see some at night on the glass :(

Gwen

Can put a SMALL piece of cuttlebone such as those used for Parakeet's in the tank for added calcium.
Would not place whole cuttlebone in tank for fear of altering the water if tank is smaller.
I can go a month between water changes in my planted 80 gal but noted that snails shell's began to turn white and brittle, rather than the color of coffee after cream is added (normal).
My tapwater is moderately hard, and I use it to maintain hardness from calcium therein to keep the snails shells in good shape.
If I try to go longer between water changes ,,the shells begin to deteriorate as mentioned.
I noticed the large snails to begin Dying but there were lot's of smaller ones so I did not worry too much.
I then noted that the little ones seldom grew very large before they too began to display the white ,brittle shells from what I assume to have been the lack of calcium/
In tank's where I perform weekly or twice weekly water changes,,the snails multiply quickly and grow larger than they do with only monthly water change.
The Trumpet sanils do provide great benefit's for me, so I try to provide them with what they need which ain't much.
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Old 02-16-2012, 11:23 AM   #13
 
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I missed the comments on water hardness previously, sorry. Most snails do better with medium hard or harder water, due to the calcium necessary for their shells. Malaysian Libebearing snails are the sole (as far as I know) exception. They will thrive in any water. My pond snails also seem to be lasting better now, though not as numerous as the MLS; after years of never keepoing them alive, not sure why.

I have tap water that is basically zero GH. I have these MLS by the hundreds, and they get about 3/4 of an inch. Loaches do not find it easy to eat these, due to the snail's "trap door" opening. The largest they seem to get at a bit; the MLS are fewest in my 90g with the Botia kubotai, but the snails are still there. The dwarf loach and banded dwarf loach in my 33g never bother the snails, at least not that I've seen. The snails come out to feed when the sinking food for the loaches is dropped in, and they are all there, snails and loaches, covering the sand.
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Old 02-16-2012, 05:57 PM   #14
 
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The snails come out to feed when the sinking food for the loaches is dropped in, and they are all there, snails and loaches, covering the sand. __________________

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Okay, Byron, I'd like to see a picture of that! Please!

Gwen
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Old 02-16-2012, 07:23 PM   #15
 
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Originally Posted by GwenInNM View Post
The snails come out to feed when the sinking food for the loaches is dropped in, and they are all there, snails and loaches, covering the sand. __________________

Read more: Malaysion trumpet snails.

Okay, Byron, I'd like to see a picture of that! Please!

Gwen
I'll try to remember tomorrow. It does happen in all the tanks. A few minutes after the food goes in, out come snails and I often see a pellet surrounded by snails which are preventing the corys from getting at the pellet.
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Old 02-16-2012, 11:50 PM   #16
 
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Originally Posted by Byron View Post
I missed the comments on water hardness previously, sorry. Most snails do better with medium hard or harder water, due to the calcium necessary for their shells. Malaysian Libebearing snails are the sole (as far as I know) exception. They will thrive in any water. My pond snails also seem to be lasting better now, though not as numerous as the MLS; after years of never keepoing them alive, not sure why.

I have tap water that is basically zero GH. I have these MLS by the hundreds, and they get about 3/4 of an inch. Loaches do not find it easy to eat these, due to the snail's "trap door" opening. The largest they seem to get at a bit; the MLS are fewest in my 90g with the Botia kubotai, but the snails are still there. The dwarf loach and banded dwarf loach in my 33g never bother the snails, at least not that I've seen. The snails come out to feed when the sinking food for the loaches is dropped in, and they are all there, snails and loaches, covering the sand.

Is possible from my understanding that GH reading can mean that there is more clacium than magnesium or more magnesium than calcium.
Reading will be the same but perhaps more of one than the other.
Do you no longer use dolomite or coral in your tank's? I find it interesting that the snails do well for you with soft water and fair poorly for me without steps to provide some form of calcium.
I see a little calcium in flourish comprehensive but always assumed that plant's utilized this amount fairly quickly.
I kept a group of clown loaches and Yo Yo loaches and like you ,noted that the large trumpet snails were near non existent, but the loaches could not seem to affect the population of the smaller snails which I believe was attributable to the difficulty of getting to the meat inside their shells.
The large ones were much easier for them .
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Old 02-17-2012, 12:57 PM   #17
 
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Quote:
Is possible from my understanding that GH reading can mean that there is more clacium than magnesium or more magnesium than calcium.
Reading will be the same but perhaps more of one than the other.
True. Hardness is determined by any one of several minerals, calcium and magnesium being the two most prevalent in "hard" water but a few others can impact the GH too. While I was experimenting with raising hardness, I did so in one tank solely with magnesium, in the form of magnesium sulfate (pure Epsom Salt) and this alone raised the GH from zero to 4 or 5 dGH. But that caused other difficulties with the plants, so I stopped. Calcium is the crucial mineral for invertebrates and plants. More on this in the response below.

Quote:
Do you no longer use dolomite or coral in your tank's? I find it interesting that the snails do well for you with soft water and fair poorly for me without steps to provide some form of calcium.
I see a little calcium in flourish comprehensive but always assumed that plant's utilized this amount fairly quickly.
I used to use dolomite in my larger tanks, and nothing in the smaller. Back in the 1990's pond snails did poorly, multiplying very minimally. I had no Malaysian Livebearing back then, no stores locally had them. My dolomite ran out; that in the filters gave out after 10+ years, and I couldn't find any locally. That was when I tried the magnesium experiment in one tank, and Seachem's Equilibrium in another. The excess of magnesium with insufficient calcium and potassium caused the swords to melt so I ended that experiment. The Equilibrium seemed expensive long-term, so I ended that test and went to aragonite. This is supposedly very similar to dolomite, containing mainly calcium and magnesium. I am using CarribSea's crushed coral with aragonite gravel. I figured this would provide calcium and some magnesium.

I should explain why I did all this before continuing. The fish are fine, I have wild-caught soft water fish so no issues there. But the plants were clearly showing something. After research, it turned out that I have a calcium deficiency, and with Echinodorus this causes the plants to take up more iron, resulting in an iron excess which slowly kills the plant. My large swords in both tanks literally collapsed into mush due to the iron. I also noticed holes in the leaves of swords in other tanks, and then in the pygmy chain swords in the 70g which has Flourite substrate and receives weekly dose of Flourish Comprehensive. Clearly the calcium, magnesium and potassium in Flourish is not sufficient in my situation.

Back to the experiment. The aragonite in the 115g and 90g blew the pH up to 7.2 and 7.4 when it had been at 6 (or lower). This over a couple days, and with only a cup of aragonite in the filter. I removed half the aragonite. The GH has been around 3 (from zero) and the pH, after 3 months of this, is now around 6.6 in the 115g and 6.8 to 7.0 in the 90g. I don't mind this pH is these two tanks, but it is not acceptable in the smaller tanks which have more delicate wild fish, so this obviously isn't the solution. And the GH at 3 dGH is still not enough for the calcium needs of the plants. They are better, during the last 3 months, but not yet "normal."

I decided to go with Equilibrium, which is about the only product I can find that deals with this issue. Seachem do have a new line of planted tank products out, called Aqua Vitro, but only in selected stores (cannot buy from them or online) and no one here has it yet. It may be better when available.

I left the aragonite in the two tanks and started using Equilibrium. Now after about a month, the GH in the 115g and 90g is stable at 6 dGH, the pH has remained at 6.6 and 6.8 respectively (which is fine for those fish), and I have noticed already a real improvement in the Echinodorus and the chain swords. Equilibrium contains calcium, magnesium, potassium, manganese and iron. I am still dosing once weekly with Flourish Comp. These two tanks seem stable.

The 70g with Flourite substrate was also having these plant issues, so I am using Equilibrium in this tank too, without the aragonite since I do not want the pH above 6. GH is now 5 dGH which is fine. I am still seeing some holes in the swords, though less than before, so i will continue to monitor. I may have to up the potassium in this tank.

I am also using Equilibrium in the 33g and 20g now. GH is 5 dGH with pH still below 6. This again is ideal.

I do not like using products if I can avoid it, but I had no other options. And, Equilibrium is not chemical, it is pure mineral salts: potassium sulfate, calcium sulfate, magnesium sulfate, ferric sulfate, manganese sulfate. It is expensive, but less so in bulk (I got the 2.8 kg tub, this should last several months).

Byron.
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