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post #1 of 27 Old 03-15-2017, 11:39 AM Thread Starter
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Water Conditioner

Hopefully I'm posting this question in the appropriate area. Say I'm doing a partial water change, 5 gallons of a 20 gallon tank. My assumption is that I only use enough conditioner to treat the 5 gallons of new water. It would seem to me if I treated all 20 gallons of water I would be using too much conditioner, especially since I'm doing these partial water changes every couple of days. Am I correct? Thanks!
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post #2 of 27 Old 03-15-2017, 12:18 PM
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For small water changes I don't think it's necessary to dose the whole tank. Common sense prevails there . But if you were doing a large change, like say 80%, then you might as well dose the whole tank. That's how I look at it. Others believe you should dose the whole tank no matter what - that's what the instructions say to do. It's up to you to decide what to do

125 - BGK, chanchito cichlid, pictus cats, silver dollars, palmas bichir
125 - cichlids (severums, bolivian rams, chocolate), rainbows ( turquoise, red), loaches (angelicus, zebra, kuhli and horseface), plecos (BN, RL and clown), denison barbs, tiretrack eel, pearl gouramis, betta
90 - Congo tetras, african knife, upside down cats, spotted ctenopoma, kribensis, delhezzi bichir
2.5 - betta
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post #3 of 27 Old 03-15-2017, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Slacker414 View Post
Hopefully I'm posting this question in the appropriate area. Say I'm doing a partial water change, 5 gallons of a 20 gallon tank. My assumption is that I only use enough conditioner to treat the 5 gallons of new water. It would seem to me if I treated all 20 gallons of water I would be using too much conditioner, especially since I'm doing these partial water changes every couple of days. Am I correct? Thanks!
that's correct.
FWIW most all de-chlorinators, water conditioners and the like work be reducing chlorine and ammonia. Some reduce chloramine to chlorine and ammonia.


They use sulfur based compounds that actually are toxic to fish. Plus the resultant "locked up" ammonia still tests as ammonia with most ammonia test kits.


The danger is you treat, still test ammonia, treat again (or a week later) and so on. When all along, that first treatment may have locked up all the ammonia and the subsequent treatments were 1) unnecessary and 2) dangerous. The treatment also locks up oxygen so it is possible with overdosing to suffocate the fish which will display the same exact symptoms as ammonia poising.


Live plants instead work by consuming ammonia directly and CO2 and returning oxygen and fish food. Along with no water changes (or very small weekly ones) the chlorine/chloramine added is easily reduced by the natural action of the tank making chemical additions at least unnecessary (at most harmful).


But that's just my .02

maintain Fw and marine system with a strong emphasis on balanced, stabilized system that as much as possible are self substaning.

have maintained FW systems for up to 9 years with descendants from original fish and marine aquariums for up to 8 years.

With no water changes, untreated tap water, inexpensive lighting by first starting the tank with live plants (FW) or macro algae( marine)

see: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/a...-build-295530/
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post #4 of 27 Old 03-15-2017, 01:54 PM
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Water Conditioner

Again bob, no one kills their fish with water conditioner and it's just fear mongering to suggest that water conditioner is unsafe to use. Really ridiculous, I'm sorry to say.

The OP says they don't want plants and you try to scare them into following your method??? Shameful.

125 - BGK, chanchito cichlid, pictus cats, silver dollars, palmas bichir
125 - cichlids (severums, bolivian rams, chocolate), rainbows ( turquoise, red), loaches (angelicus, zebra, kuhli and horseface), plecos (BN, RL and clown), denison barbs, tiretrack eel, pearl gouramis, betta
90 - Congo tetras, african knife, upside down cats, spotted ctenopoma, kribensis, delhezzi bichir
2.5 - betta
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post #5 of 27 Old 03-15-2017, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slacker414 View Post
Hopefully I'm posting this question in the appropriate area. Say I'm doing a partial water change, 5 gallons of a 20 gallon tank. My assumption is that I only use enough conditioner to treat the 5 gallons of new water. It would seem to me if I treated all 20 gallons of water I would be using too much conditioner, especially since I'm doing these partial water changes every couple of days. Am I correct? Thanks!

You are right only add enough conditioner to treat the new water going into the tank. I will normally do a little extra so in the 20g tank you change 5g I would treat for 6-8 gallons that way you know its good.

But like Jay said if you do small changes you don't need to treat, I have done 20% changes and not had any issues but I normally treat to be safe.


You can follow Old Fort Exotics on You Tube and on my Fish room thread.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5l...KdIa-pb3K2zb7A
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/d...h-room-517930/

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post #6 of 27 Old 03-15-2017, 02:42 PM
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As for what Bob is talking about if you use "Prime" or other conditioners it will "lock" the ammonia so it is safe for the fish but will show on a test kit. Doesn't matter keep doing water changes and the cycle will happen and when ammonia is 0, nitrites 0, and nitrate 10+ you have cycle pretty easy.


You can follow Old Fort Exotics on You Tube and on my Fish room thread.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5l...KdIa-pb3K2zb7A
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/d...h-room-517930/

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post #7 of 27 Old 03-15-2017, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by jaysee View Post
Again bob, no one kills their fish with water conditioner and it's just fear mongering to suggest that water conditioner is unsafe to use. Really ridiculous, I'm sorry to say.

The OP says they don't want plants and you try to scare them into following your method??? Shameful.

I disagree and hope all posters here have awesome aquariums with healthy fish.


An example of my concerns were discussed in this old thread The effect of Prime on Oxygen levels in an aquarium


Sodium thiosulfate is a very common de chlorinator whose msds' specifically state a danger to fish when released in the environment.


By contrast, using live plants not only avoids all those dangers but actually makes the tank healthier for fish.


my .02

maintain Fw and marine system with a strong emphasis on balanced, stabilized system that as much as possible are self substaning.

have maintained FW systems for up to 9 years with descendants from original fish and marine aquariums for up to 8 years.

With no water changes, untreated tap water, inexpensive lighting by first starting the tank with live plants (FW) or macro algae( marine)

see: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/a...-build-295530/
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post #8 of 27 Old 03-15-2017, 02:50 PM
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Water Conditioner

Bob lets be honest, you don't care about what anyone actually wants to do - all you are here to do is push your very specific method of keeping fish. Anyone can simply look at all your posts and see that that's the case. Doesn't matter what the topic is, doesn't matter what the OP says - you're here for only one reason. To promote the beaslbob method. You don't care what falsehoods you spread in order to accomplish that goal, as is evidenced by quoting the MSDS. Utterly ridiculous and shameful.

125 - BGK, chanchito cichlid, pictus cats, silver dollars, palmas bichir
125 - cichlids (severums, bolivian rams, chocolate), rainbows ( turquoise, red), loaches (angelicus, zebra, kuhli and horseface), plecos (BN, RL and clown), denison barbs, tiretrack eel, pearl gouramis, betta
90 - Congo tetras, african knife, upside down cats, spotted ctenopoma, kribensis, delhezzi bichir
2.5 - betta
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post #9 of 27 Old 03-15-2017, 02:52 PM
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Bob I try not to get into debates but I think you are over stating the risk. We all want to keep healthy fish and just like anything else in the world if you use the product correctly it will be perfectly safe. But if you don't it can be harmful.

Having tanks that are very heavily planted can cause issues also like plants pulling O2 out of the water at night meaning less for the fish. And yes that will take a huge amount of plants and lots of fish but just saying it can happen. There is not perfect way to keep fish in small glass boxes we can't make it like it is in the wild so we do the best we can.


You can follow Old Fort Exotics on You Tube and on my Fish room thread.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5l...KdIa-pb3K2zb7A
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/d...h-room-517930/

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post #10 of 27 Old 03-15-2017, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Warhawk View Post
Bob I try not to get into debates but I think you are over stating the risk. We all want to keep healthy fish and just like anything else in the world if you use the product correctly it will be perfectly safe. But if you don't it can be harmful.

Having tanks that are very heavily planted can cause issues also like plants pulling O2 out of the water at night meaning less for the fish. And yes that will take a huge amount of plants and lots of fish but just saying it can happen. There is not perfect way to keep fish in small glass boxes we can't make it like it is in the wild so we do the best we can.

Agree 100%.


FWIW IME although plants do respire lights off, decreasing oxygen and increasing co2, the tank becomes a net producer of oxygen and consumer of co2 each 24 hour period. And based upon pH measurements in my non circulated tanks the co2 at night is much lower and oxygen much higher than tanks with no plant life and with circulation.


still just my .02

maintain Fw and marine system with a strong emphasis on balanced, stabilized system that as much as possible are self substaning.

have maintained FW systems for up to 9 years with descendants from original fish and marine aquariums for up to 8 years.

With no water changes, untreated tap water, inexpensive lighting by first starting the tank with live plants (FW) or macro algae( marine)

see: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/a...-build-295530/
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