Time for a hobby revolution!
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Time for a hobby revolution!

This is a discussion on Time for a hobby revolution! within the Freshwater and Tropical Fish forums, part of the Freshwater Fish and Aquariums category; --> Well here it is.. the post that will no doubt make me public enemy #1! I have been following some threads recently and im ...

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Time for a hobby revolution!
Old 11-27-2009, 02:21 AM   #1
 
Time for a hobby revolution!

Well here it is.. the post that will no doubt make me public enemy #1! I have been following some threads recently and im noticing a scary trend..we have a few hobbiests who are approaching the status of fish nazi! every time a beginner asks a question they get a 1000 word response mostly telling them 2 things: their tank is to small, and their fish wont survive. as for the first response regardeing tank size...ENOUGH ALREADY! i do agree that an oscar in a five gallon bown is cruel, i would just like to point out a simple fact...No tank on earth is big enough for any species of fish..an oscar in a 100,000 gallon tank is still being kept in an enviornment well below its natural one. A newcomer is likely to feel that they have to be a chemist to understand and keep an tank running. whenever a fish dies all the questions start about ph, amonia , nitrates, and god knows what else. heres a shocker..these are mass bred, aften hybrid fish..its a miracle they live at all! I have two oscars in a 120 and i can honestly sya that i have no idea what the levels are in my tank. This being said, they are looking great and the water is crystal clear..all that from simple water changes and gravel vaccuuming. I do understand that the tech aspect is the draw for some people, but stop hammering others with the same views you hold..If i can keep oscars in my 120 thriving with thiese simple methods, im sure a 30 gallon with some tetras and mollies can be kept without a degree in chemistry. All i wanna do is bring the fun back! lets all just relax and remember its a hobby. Remember no one gets into the hobby so they can have a complicated fulltime job on their hands, so lets all do our part to make this fun again.. ok guys..time to let me have it! lol
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Old 11-27-2009, 06:00 AM   #2
 
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It is precisely these kind of posts that confuse the new hobbyist. People who come here in large part are seeking answers,not five or six differing views. The questions and statements with regards to a persons particular situation are in an effort to not just state an opinion, but to try and explain why that opinion is ,based on knowledge that the particular new hobbyist ,may or may not be aware of. If they don't like what they hear,, then they are welcome to seek others opinions. All tanks,all water ,all fish,are different. And as such ,one needs to approach them differently at times.
Am pleased that you are able to provide for your fish and that they remain healthy. And I have yet to hear anyone ,other than you,complain about lengthy responses designed to provide the information being sought ,or in an effort to eliminate possible contributers to a specific problem or tank. Most I suspect,,appreciate the time the folks here are willing to take to respond. Fish keeping is indeed fun once one understands what is needed to make it so.
P.S Mollies and neons do not share same basic requirements with regards to water chemistry. One or the other will not survive long if kept together. Mollies require hard basic alkaline water and tetras need rather soft neutral conditions and much cooler water than livebearers.
It is this kind of misinformation that results in sick fish and new hobbyist's become frustrated when the fish become sick or die and they do not understand why. Usually ,,fish illness can be directly related to the water quality or lack therof. Some estimate as much as 80 to 90 percent.
Let those who feel as you do respond. It is with considerable difficulty that I am able to communicate in this way,, If those who feel as you do ,respond,,then I will not waste the effort at trying to help them.
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Old 11-27-2009, 08:28 AM   #3
 
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well i feel compelled to chime in here... i agree that it is a hobby and that it should not be overly stressful, however, i think the lack of stress comes from knowlage. if i have a bit of advice to offer it is 97% of the time from my own experience (3% gleamed from research). does it matter to me personally that an Oscar needs a large tank? no not really i dont intend on having any however i am very grateful that when my Platies got Ick for the second time after chemical treatment that someone had the know how on how to treat with out chemicals and with out cost... and as 1077 stated if one does not wish to except the advice they are free to dismiss it after all you get what you pay for and once it is yours do what you want right?
YES enjoy the hobbie with out a PHD but YES go to those who have that PHD for expert advice when you are lost... we kind of do the same thing with our selves dont we? i mean honestly i am not about to perform brain surgery over a head ache but if my head ache last a long time i am going to a doctor to have them fix it ....
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Old 11-27-2009, 09:35 AM   #4
 
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For the most part, keeping fish is a fun enjoyable hobby.

There are times when fish become ill. People, including myself, seek answers here. This is our current list of questions to held diagnose the fish and find a solution. MUST READ! ALL MEMBERS please read BEFORE posting!

So, if someone ask you, what can I do to help my fish become well again, what would you say?

I think knowing how the aquarium cycle works, knowing what fish are compatible, are all things that will help the hobbyist have better success. So, less stress and more enjoyment.
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Old 11-27-2009, 10:40 AM   #5
 
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questioning what we ask a beginner for their problems?.............Isnt that why thery are here too seek information on a particular problem?........How should we handle their issues?............You are correct, alot of us will state "your tank is too small".........And do you know why?......becuase usually the beginner purchased fish with bad info from the LFS or printed material thay provide........They end up with problems when it doesnt work for them........They turn to forums, such as this, for experienced hobbyists to answer questions and give solutions to their problem, and alot of the time, the problem is overcrowding of their newly purchased tank, thus leading to deaths and illnesses......

Being a chemist is not needed in the hobby, but understanding your tank water and how it can be affected by parasites, toxins and other foreign matter is quite needed...........Some new members have no idea that limestone they just added to their tank is gonna raise their Ph and wonder why their fish arent doing well......Asking the simple questions can allow other members to diagnose and help with certain issues.........Knowing such things as, tank size, how old the tank is, Ph, water conditioners used, recently added decor, switch in foods.......can all affect water chemistry and answering these things can possibly help save some peoples fish........

Isnt that whay they came here in the first place to seek help and info to keep their fish healthy?........Would it be better for them to NOT ask questions and have them try everything to fix a certain problem?........Saving the fish and having new hobbyists tanks thrive is what is gonna keep this hobby going............Trying to help without the questions is futile......Letting the problems continue, is just ending up with dead fish
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Old 11-27-2009, 12:51 PM   #6
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1077 View Post
It is precisely these kind of posts that confuse the new hobbyist. People who come here in large part are seeking answers,not five or six differing views. The questions and statements with regards to a persons particular situation are in an effort to not just state an opinion, but to try and explain why that opinion is ,based on knowledge that the particular new hobbyist ,may or may not be aware of. If they don't like what they hear,, then they are welcome to seek others opinions. All tanks,all water ,all fish,are different. And as such ,one needs to approach them differently at times.
Am pleased that you are able to provide for your fish and that they remain healthy. And I have yet to hear anyone ,other than you,complain about lengthy responses designed to provide the information being sought ,or in an effort to eliminate possible contributers to a specific problem or tank. Most I suspect,,appreciate the time the folks here are willing to take to respond. Fish keeping is indeed fun once one understands what is needed to make it so.
P.S Mollies and neons do not share same basic requirements with regards to water chemistry. One or the other will not survive long if kept together. Mollies require hard basic alkaline water and tetras need rather soft neutral conditions and much cooler water than livebearers.
It is this kind of misinformation that results in sick fish and new hobbyist's become frustrated when the fish become sick or die and they do not understand why. Usually ,,fish illness can be directly related to the water quality or lack therof. Some estimate as much as 80 to 90 percent.
Let those who feel as you do respond. It is with considerable difficulty that I am able to communicate in this way,, If those who feel as you do ,respond,,then I will not waste the effort at trying to help them.
not going to flame the OP here but rather just back 1077 here 200%
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Old 11-27-2009, 01:04 PM   #7
 
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Originally Posted by statenfish View Post
every time a beginner asks a question they get a 1000 word response mostly telling them 2 things: their tank is to small, and their fish wont survive. as for the first response regardeing tank size...ENOUGH ALREADY! i do agree that an oscar in a five gallon bown is cruel, i would just like to point out a simple fact...No tank on earth is big enough for any species of fish..an oscar in a 100,000 gallon tank is still being kept in an enviornment well below its natural one.
Remember they come to us asking these questions. If I see a oscar in a 5 gallon bowl and the owner doesn't care I'm not bothered to offer him advice. Those that do care are entitled to get the correct advice. That is what they came here for. Remember fish most fish are farm raised, oscars included. Hence natural habitat size has nothing to do with it. A fish kept properly in captivity is likely to outlive its live in its natural habitat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by statenfish View Post
heres a shocker..these are mass bred, aften hybrid fish..its a miracle they live at all!
The are mass bred and often culled. Most of our fish are not hybrid fish. Sure there are hybrids, but they are a very small percentage. A hybrid is a cross between to different species. Most of our fish are "man-made" and products of artificial selection. I don't see why it is a miracle that they live at all.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by statenfish View Post
I have two oscars in a 120 and i can honestly sya that i have no idea what the levels are in my tank. This being said, they are looking great and the water is crystal clear..all that from simple water changes and gravel vaccuuming. I do understand that the tech aspect is the draw for some people, but stop hammering others with the same views you hold..If i can keep oscars in my 120 thriving with thiese simple methods, im sure a 30 gallon with some tetras and mollies can be kept without a degree in chemistry.l
The chemistry is not necessary in running a tank. It does make it easier IMO. All a tank needs is basic stuff like gravel vacs and WC. Its when something goes wrong, the best way to correct it, that is where the chemistry and biology come into play. Its important to understand the effects of what you are doing. A tank doesn't need testing every day once it is stable. I don't know the levels in my own tank, I do know what will through them off. Things like gavel vacs and water changes are there to keep the chemistry stable. If you didn't know the reason for them, would you still do them?
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Old 11-27-2009, 02:02 PM   #8
 
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I will chime in here, I know from my experience on this forum a lot of questions I asked were responded to with kindness and lots of information that was useful. I have had on the other hand a few that I felt were very sarcastic with a lot of attitude. I think to hammer someone for their mistake is pointless. If someone did not want to take better care of their fish, they would not seek out information. A lot of people start fish tanks and dont realize the amount of work/knowledge that goes along with keeping it healthy. There is definitely more to it than just getting a tank and adding fish. I think it is important to give answers, especially to newbies, that stay away from being too critical and focus on finding a solution to the problems.
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Old 11-28-2009, 12:25 AM   #9
 
i agree with you on some points..we should give them answers..but not innundate them with the typical your tank is to small and your wate levels are off..i have news for you guys..all of our tanks are to small! nature provides the ideal habitiat for these fish and any tank we get is way to small.. not all people who get the typical negative responses ask for help. they just talk about their tank, and then the small tank complaints start. as i mentioned my friend is a marine biologist affiliated w a major aquarium, and he always tells me the same thing...its a crap shoot if they live or die! he loses specimens all the time and no one in here knows better then he does about fish care and water parameters...its mostly luck!
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Old 11-28-2009, 12:54 AM   #10
 
I think we are all here to share our knowledge and experiences with each other. I have gotten some great advice from members here in the year and a half that I have been here. I don't think a person has to have a degree in marine biology to know how to take care of fish properly. I don't have a problem with people giving me advice as long as they aren't smart alecky and rude about it.
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