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Suggestions for my water parameters

10K views 74 replies 8 participants last post by  zombiefish610 
#1 ·
Hello all, It's been a long time since I was here. I'm in the process of cycling my tank. My water is alot different from where I used to live. I'm getting back in the hobby! Anyway, tank has been running for a few days so I know the cycle is not complete yet but I decided to test the water. I'm doing a 55g freshwater setup with malaysian driftwood that I used to have in a tank for years but is just now seeing water again and black sand. I do wanna add some rocks( not sure what yet ) and what I can have based on my parameters. My question is what fish would do well in these conditions? Also what would you suggest? Feel free to ask me any questions that might help in coming up with a plan. My parameters are as follows....

Ph- 8.0
Kh- 161.1
Gh- 232.7
Ammonia- 1.0
Nitrite- 0
Nitrate- 7.5

The thing that most concerns me is the Kh and the Gh. I will not go the route of altering this via chemicals. Not a option for me. Much rather find fish that would be fine with these parameters. Also I have a suspicion that they may change when the cycle is complete. Am I right? So excited to get back, but I wanna make sure I take it slow and smart. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
 
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#2 ·
Welcome back into the hobby! You do have some hard water there, but that's not a big problem. African cichlids would do well in it, but I don't know if they are your thing. Guppies and other livebearer do well, too, but aren't for everyone due to that pesky habit of breeding like flies.

But there are some neat hardwater fish that have come into the hobby recently. A lot of them are small, colorful shoaling fish. The Asian rummynose barb (Sawbwa resplendens) is my favorite. Emerald dwarf rasbora are also gorgeous. For some bottom-dwellers look at the Inle Loach (Petruichthys brevis) or some of the captive-bred corydoras species as they can tolerate harder water better than the wild-caught ones. A lot of rainbowfish are hard water fish too (if memory serves me right).

Hope I've been able to give you some good ideas!
 
#5 ·
Nice start, that screams Amazon to me, lots of wood, tannins floating plants with prolific roots, lots, and some serious moss. Of course that isn't really in synch with the harder water. (I am dealing with 23dGH if you want to talk about hard water).

If you heavily planted it and didn't over populate the fish the water would soften somewhat, maybe get you under 10dGH and the pH could get into the lower 7's.

Jeff.
 
#7 ·
Kinda leaning towards the cichlids. I've never done them before. I would like to attach some java moss to the wood in spots, I've had great success with it in the past. Just not sure how it will fare with the cichlids.
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#9 ·
Tank is looking good, stick a pile of rocks dotted around and yes it would be suited to cichlids.

They will munch on the driftwood a bit but no destroy it, add a BN pleco or synodontis as a bottom feeder and it would be a nice tank.

There are some easier cichlids to start off with, these include yellow labs, cynotilapia afra, Rusty and acei, in a 55g tank look at about 12-15 in total. Ideally you want 1 male to several females although this is not always possible.
 
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#11 ·
Tank is looking good, stick a pile of rocks dotted around and yes it would be suited to cichlids.

They will munch on the driftwood a bit but no destroy it, add a BN pleco or synodontis as a bottom feeder and it would be a nice tank.

There are some easier cichlids to start off with, these include yellow labs, cynotilapia afra, Rusty and acei, in a 55g tank look at about 12-15 in total. Ideally you want 1 male to several females although this is not always possible.
One thing I am sure of is I will be doing BN plecos. Had them in the past and I love em!
 
#12 ·
Hello again folks! Tank seems to be cycling fine. Got a nice new big piece of driftwood in the tank now after soaking. Moved things around a little. I wanted to post a new pic as well as report my water tests. Want to know what you guys think of the hardscape and get some thought on my water parameters. Any and all comments or suggestions welcomed. Please let me know if you see something wrong. Hope you guys like it. Water test results are as follows to date.

4/11/13
- Ph- 8.0
- Kh- 161.1
- Gh- 232.7
- Ammonia- 1.0
- Nitrite- 0
- Nitrate- 7.5

4/17/13
- Ph- 7.9
- Kh- 125.3
- Gh- 232.7
- Ammonia- 1.0
- Nitrite- 0.25
- Nitrate- 10.0

4/22/13
- Ph- 8.0
- Kh- 125.3
- Gh- 214.8
- Ammonia- 0
- Nitrite- 2.0
- Nitrate- 15.0

By the way I am doing a fishless cycle. Again, please let me know if you see anything that isn't right. Still unsure of what I want to stock. I think I will add some moss. Maybe some narrow leaf java fern, anubias and various crypts. Don't think I will add any rocks as the driftwood takes up a lot of space already. If I do it will be sparse. So basically what I'm looking for from you guys is to let me know if the water is looking good and if this was your tank, what would you add as far as fish. Also, the pic isn't too good because at the moment I only have my crappy phone camera, so coloration is not accurate. Thanks guys!
 

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#20 ·
Here are some more recent test results. Everything seems to be going ok but I am concerned with a couple things. First, my Ph seems to be fluctuating. I know this is not good. I can tell you I have not yet done a water change since starting the cycle. I have topped the tank off a couple of times due to evaporation because I have the temp high to help stimulate the cycle. I have added a huge piece of driftwood that i had soaking for a couple weeks but is still releasing tannins. I guess my question is, is this normal due to cycling or because of the driftwood? I know the driftwood can lower Ph so I figure the fluctuations are do to topping off being that my tap seems to be around 8.0? If so, is there a way to stop this and will it happen after every water change? Also, my nitrates seem to be stuck where they are. Should I be adding more food? Anyway, here are the test results to date...

4/28/2013
Ph- 7.8
Kh- 125.3
Gh- 214.8
Ammonia- 0
Nitrite- 0.25
Nitrate- 10

5/2/2013
Ph-7.6
Kh- 125.3
Gh- 232.7
Ammonia- 0
Nitrite- 0
Nitrate- 10
 
#13 ·
Looking good.

Rocks would be lost. An assortment of short and taller crypts will do nicely although that wood screams for a carpet of green as it will overpower (visually) any plants you put in there. A row of vals across the back behind the wood would be the easiest to maintain and they'll throw out runners to fill in after a few months.

What are the lights?

Jeff.
 
#14 ·
Looking good.

Rocks would be lost. An assortment of short and taller crypts will do nicely although that wood screams for a carpet of green as it will overpower (visually) any plants you put in there. A row of vals across the back behind the wood would be the easiest to maintain and they'll throw out runners to fill in after a few months.

What are the lights?

Jeff.
Odyssea 2x 54 Watts T5HO
- Coralife Colormax
- Coralife 10,000k

I also have a 6,700 bulb not certain what combo I will run yet.
 
#22 ·
There is a lot of wood in this tank--and again, I think it is outstanding--so this may be affecting the pH. Plus the cycling issues, I can't remember how these impact but they do.

Nitrate at 10ppm is not bad. It will take a while for this to lowser on its own, because the bacteria in the substrate that use nitrate are not there yet, with no organics.

Byron.
 
#25 ·
There is a lot of wood in this tank--and again, I think it is outstanding--so this may be affecting the pH. Plus the cycling issues, I can't remember how these impact but they do.

Nitrate at 10ppm is not bad. It will take a while for this to lowser on its own, because the bacteria in the substrate that use nitrate are not there yet, with no organics.

Byron.
All of the wood except the large piece was in a tank I had going years ago and released most of its tannins already. So the majority if not all tannins are from that large piece I believe. If I'm not mistaken, the tank is cycled? Is there anything I should be doing at this point? This is my first fishless cycle. When should I do a water change? Should I keep adding food? Sorry for all the questions but like I said I'm new to the fishless cycle. How about my tank setup selections, see any issues?
 
#23 ·
Keep adding food. What may be happening, as far as nitrates are concerned is that you are not adding ammonia therefore no new nitrite which equals no new nitrates... it's not critical that you keep the ammonia up but it is important in that you need to get the cycle properly established as you don't want the nitrites to spike when you start adding fish to to an inadequate colony growth and it's nice to see it continually woriking.

Jeff.
 
#28 ·
Keep adding food. What may be happening, as far as nitrates are concerned is that you are not adding ammonia therefore no new nitrite which equals no new nitrates... it's not critical that you keep the ammonia up but it is important in that you need to get the cycle properly established as you don't want the nitrites to spike when you start adding fish to to an inadequate colony growth and it's nice to see it continually woriking.

Jeff.
How often would you suggest adding food and about how much?
 
#37 ·
Best option would be if your LFS could order them for you. I've seen all four species for sale online, but that is going to cost more because of shipping. Finding the closest place to you would help that, but then there is the matter of you would need to stock slowly and couldn't buy in bulk to save. If you had to order online then I would try to use ammonia to fishless cycle so you could get most of the fish at the same time.
 
#39 ·
I used pure unscented ammonia. Actually was a pain to find. You need the kind without any additives at all. To test that you shake the bottle and if it foams it's not what you want. It won't restart the cycle, but it will lengthen it. You have the bacteria, you'd simply be building up the bioload they can handle from the start.

I think Byron has said this method would be bad for plants. I know others have said it speeds up growth. My frogbit died when I tried, but that was due to trying this method with softwater.

Now after saying all this I have to admit that using plants to cycle is now my preferred method. Fishless was a disaster, but again that was with my water. Plants are just simply the easiest and the method I prefer for myself.
 
#40 ·
If plants and budget are not in sync, perhaps adding plants as you can to get them built up would be appropriate. Depending on how out of budget they are, you might find that the timeline is similar to adding the ammonia and bumping the cycle into a higher gear and safer for fish in the long run.

Jeff.
 
#41 ·
The ammonia method is 100% fish safe, well provided you do all the PWCs to lower nitrates before introduction. There will be plenty of nitrates. I simply can't speak for plant safety. I have heard various things, but without having done it with hard water I can't say which is correct. At no point were any of my fish in any danger.
 
#43 ·
I would certainly plant this tank first, and then start adding fish. I have set up dozens of new tanks by planting, and fish go in on day 1 with no issues. But for someone new to this, I do caution care, by adding a few fish to start. It becomes easier to guage as one gains experience. Forget adding any form of ammonia.

The Emerald Dwarf Rasbora would be good, but this is a very small fish; I have a group in my 33g, and they are almost lost; in a 55g they would be. Those rainbows were nice, just too many. A group (5-6) of the Red would be a start. Bear in mind that they are largish fish (at 5 inches) and will eat small fish.

Byron.
 
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#45 ·
If you are using food, you really only need to do one before the fish go in as you don't have a nitrite spike to deal with and your nitrates aren't likely to skyrocket if you are going ahead with the plants. Even then I'm not sure that it is needed so much as just a prudent cleaning house measure just to suck any crap off the bottom.

Jeff.
 
#47 ·
I think it is one thing to add a natural product like fish food and have ammonia being naturally produced, but quite another to be dumping pure ammonia in the tank, something I personally would never do.

The ability of plants to take up the ammonia is considerable. Floating plants are the easiest way to handle this. I have set up tanks with plants and fully stocked them the same day with no issues. I admit that the plants were healthy, coming from my former/other tank, and probably carried over bacteria as well (as would the chunks of wood and rock). If one is really timid using this method, it is always possible to seed the tank with a bacterial suplement as well. I used to do this, but don't bother now as I have become more confident of the plants method.

Byron.
 
#49 ·
Yes it is Petco sand and so far I love it. Glad I finally found black sand somewhere local! Thanks so much for the great comments! I don't have a QT tank. Not sure if I will. I know it's a good idea but the smallest tank i have is a 29g and I have no room anywhete to put it. I do plan on acclimating the fish very slowly with a drip method. Since I brought it up, what is the best way to acclimate? I am in no rush.
 
#50 ·
I start by removing some of the water from the bag, if the store has put a lot in as some do. Then float the bag in the aquarium for 10-15 minutes; this equalizes the temperature in the bag water to the tank. Then add some of the tank water to the bag [the reason for lowering the bag water initially is here]. I use a cup. Wait 10-20 minutes, then repeat with another sup of tank water, and wait. Depending upon the fish species, I may do this once, twice, three or more times. Then net the fish out of the bag and into the tank. Never tip the bag and let any of the bag water get in the tank [it contains stuff you do not want, whether simply ammonia and pheromones/allomones from the fish, or pathogens from the store tanks/fish].

Some use a drip method. Pour the fish and bag water carefully into a small pail. Then use a piece of plastic tubing (air line) to drip water from the main tank slowly into the pail. After the water in the pail has doubled, net the fish into the tank.

These methods apply whether in a quarantine or the display. But when moving the fish from the QT to the display, I don't usually do all this; depends upon the fish and the water parameters.

Byron.
 
#52 ·
Something to keep in mind about the two methods of "cycling" is that the bacteria and plants are in competition for all the ammonia they can grab. And stem plants and floating plants and some other faster growing types will win because they are faster at taking up ammonia than the Nitrosomonas bacteria [initially] or the subsequent Archaea.

My thinking is that when plants are intended, start with them and give them a good head-start to establish a natural balanced system faster. Encouraging bacteria/archaea in a planted tank is not advisable; let what is naturally there be there, but don't try to increase it at the expense of the plants.

Byron.
 
#53 · (Edited by Moderator)
They are mutually exclusive why? Plant the tank, with the OP's parameters a ph drop significant enough to harm the plants is unlikely. Use ammonia and grow the plants and bacteria. If when the fish are added only the plants use the ammonia they provide then so be it. There will not be any worrying about spiking parameters.

Again I have used both methods, both work well. One or the other might have advantages in a given situation. I really have no dog in this race, other than to fight the total bottleneck of opinion. All things that do not adversely effect our fish are worth looking at and considering.
 
#54 ·
Figured I'd share a update photo. Still no fish, working on some plants first. Picked up a few plants. Here is what it looks like currently...Oh and again, sorry for the crappy pic but you get the point. I just wish you guys could see how it really looks in person...
 

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#58 ·
I keep having to trim my moss... so far I haven't thrown any out though... new tank, little jug stuff.

I like the look on the driftwood. Did you tie it down? It isn't obvious in the picture.
 
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