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Stupid question but needs to be answered

This is a discussion on Stupid question but needs to be answered within the Freshwater and Tropical Fish forums, part of the Freshwater Fish and Aquariums category; --> There's a difference between "mentioned in the range of temperatures at which this fish can survive" and "suitable for". If you mix tropical fish ...

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Stupid question but needs to be answered
Old 10-13-2010, 09:53 PM   #11
 
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There's a difference between "mentioned in the range of temperatures at which this fish can survive" and "suitable for". If you mix tropical fish and coldwater fish and pick the extremes of possible temperatures, neither is at the temperature they prefer.

By way of analogy, people can live at temperatures of, say, -10 to 45 degrees celsius - but would you WANT to live at a temperature of -10 or 45 all the time? Coldwater fish would prefer a temperature lower than the top of their range, and tropical would prefer a temperature higher than their lowest. Making each live at the highest/lowest of their possible range isn't giving either the best possible environment, IMO.
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Old 10-14-2010, 08:01 AM   #12
 
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I understand what you are saying, that is why I have chosen a good mid range temp that perfectly suit my tropical selection, and the coldwater fish (which are only in the tank on a guest basis) would also be quick happy at these temps, allthough not indefinatly.
The coldwater fish are more active in the summer months outdoors in small pools with temps much higher than my tank will be, so this should be a happy temp for both kinds.

The only issue I have is the relative sizes and the tropical becoming prey, this is somthing I will have to allow for in the design of my tank.

Anyone any plant suggestions please ?
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Old 10-14-2010, 10:24 AM   #13
 
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Something else I wanted to mention..

In a tank (even a 3ft) with young larger fish, they may never "outgrow" the tank. The old wilves tale that a fish won't outgrow their bowl is actually true. In non-optimal conditions, their body does indeed grow slower and even stop. The problem is that their organs keep growing, leading to stunted growth and a host of other problems. Koi and Goldfish need an exceptionally large tank. (30 gallon for 1.)

Also, goldfish and koi are extremely messy eaters... They end up producing lots of ammonia. Ammonia is toxic to all fish, and may well kill everything else in the tank.

On the hiding places- Logically it works, but the problem is that the fish won't think "hey the goldfish is busy now, I can come out and eat." and may eventually starve. Plus stress makes fish much more vulnerable to disease...



I really would decide on either coldwater or warmwater fish, and get your local tapwater tested so you can match it with fish that appreciate it.




Also, as far as plants... There's a long list of plants that would work well in a tropical setup, but the koi and carp would devour it all overnight.

Last edited by redchigh; 10-14-2010 at 10:30 AM..
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Old 10-14-2010, 10:37 AM   #14
 
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Ah... now that was a good post !

I will have to have a good think on what I want to do now, maybe have to go for the 2 tank option lol

My missus won't be happy lmao.
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Old 10-14-2010, 11:54 AM   #15
 
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Yes two tanks are always better than one in my opinion. LOL Exspecially when you want two very different types of fish. Please if you go with the Koi/Carp type fish please make it a very large tank as Redchigh says there bodys will stop growing but there insides will keep growing which will lead to shorter lives and possiably a painful death just imagine if your body stayed say the size of a two year old but your heart, lungs and other very important parts kept growing I would think it would be very painful.
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Old 10-25-2010, 06:32 AM   #16
 
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Well, I got my tank up and running. I ended up buying a new 40L hexagon tank and put in...

4 golden orf around 2 inches long
2 Green tench around 2 and half inches long
1 Koi 3 inch long
5 white cloud fish about 1 inch long

I am on day 4 now and all fish are feeding well and seem very active and happy.

I also put some coldwater oxygenating plants in too.

When the fish get too big or get stressed, I will move them on to a garden pond which I am planning for next spring.

Just a quick question....

I have one of these underwater filter pumps, that is 100% underwater, the water is in constant motion. Should I leave this on 24 hours a day to keep the water clean or not ? I also have a light and I have put that on a timer so it is on for 5 hours of an afternoon and into the evening, this is to allow good light for the plants, does this sound ok ?

The tropical fish I was going to buy ended up, in another tank in my sons bedroom, he ended up with a 20L tank, a 1 inch freshwater crab (with red claws) and 2 paradise fish (coldwater/room temp) they are midwater fish and out of reach of the crab. lol
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Old 10-25-2010, 07:13 AM   #17
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ELIMINATOR View Post
Well, I got my tank up and running. I ended up buying a new 40L hexagon tank and put in...

4 golden orf around 2 inches long
2 Green tench around 2 and half inches long
1 Koi 3 inch long
5 white cloud fish about 1 inch long

I am on day 4 now and all fish are feeding well and seem very active and happy.

I also put some coldwater oxygenating plants in too.

When the fish get too big or get stressed, I will move them on to a garden pond which I am planning for next spring.

Just a quick question....

I have one of these underwater filter pumps, that is 100% underwater, the water is in constant motion. Should I leave this on 24 hours a day to keep the water clean or not ? I also have a light and I have put that on a timer so it is on for 5 hours of an afternoon and into the evening, this is to allow good light for the plants, does this sound ok ?

The tropical fish I was going to buy ended up, in another tank in my sons bedroom, he ended up with a 20L tank, a 1 inch freshwater crab (with red claws) and 2 paradise fish (coldwater/room temp) they are midwater fish and out of reach of the crab. lol

40 Litre hex tank is just a tad over ten gallons and your son's 20 Litre tank is around five gallons.
The forty litre is a far cry from the 3 foot tank you mentioned early in this thread and will be difficult to keep water parameters in check with the fish listed.
You say you just set up the 40 L so I will assume it has not cycled. I would be testing /changing water as needed (perhaps daily) for control of ammonia that assuming the fish are breathing, will be produced.
Test kit will soon start showing elevated ammonia levels if the tank(s) have not cycled.
The Red claw crab will need a place to climb out of the water (can't stay submerged indefinately) and will escape from the tank unless a tight fitting lid with no large openings is provided. They will climb the cords to filters,heaters etc.
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Old 10-25-2010, 07:29 AM   #18
 
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Yeah, I did not go with the 3ft tank, as I wanted to see who things went, originaly I wanted to mix coldwater and tropical, but after taking the advice on here, I desided not to. I went and bought this smaller tank just while I get back into fish keeping again. it's a nice looking tank on a stand, so I did not get much ear ache from my missus. lol

The crab can get out when it wants, it climbes up the plants and the cable.


So about the pump/filter...

Do I leave it on 24 hrs ?
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Old 10-25-2010, 07:34 AM   #19
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ELIMINATOR View Post
Yeah, I did not go with the 3ft tank, as I wanted to see who things went, originaly I wanted to mix coldwater and tropical, but after taking the advice on here, I desided not to. I went and bought this smaller tank just while I get back into fish keeping again. it's a nice looking tank on a stand, so I did not get much ear ache from my missus. lol

The crab can get out when it wants, it climbes up the plants and the cable.


So about the pump/filter...

Do I leave it on 24 hrs ?

Filter must run so long as fish are in the tank.It is the filter where the bacterial colony will begin that processes ammonia created by the fish.
Smaller tanks are much more difficult to maintain due to less volume of water to dilute toxins created by fish,fish waste,and foods offered. The larger the body of water,the more dilution capabilities between water changes.

Last edited by 1077; 10-25-2010 at 07:37 AM..
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Old 10-25-2010, 11:19 AM   #20
 
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http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/f...m-cycle-38617/

http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/f...nt-topics-257/

i am a bit confused after reading this thread .. and i apologize if these things have been covered elsewhere.. the above are some great resources to get you started back up into the hobby as things have changed a great deal in the last 25 or so years regarding what we know about fish and good care...
i dont wish to come on as mean or rude in any way but this thread brings to mind a number of issues (most addressed very well BTW) 1st and most important would be cycling and then maintainability of a tank.. next stocking and care for the fish so that they not only "can survive" but so that they may "thrive" .. i hope these articles help as they were very well written and clarify much of what has been mentioned earlier in this thread..
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