Question regarding Regular partial water changes article - Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources
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post #1 of 8 Old 05-07-2013, 09:25 AM Thread Starter
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Question regarding Regular partial water changes article

Hello:
In an article I was reading Byron mentioned “As TDS increase, the ability of the water to hold oxygen decreases proportionally” are you making reference to “SALT” such as salt water or are you considering the notion that any TDS such as iron or other minerals as well as necessary nutrients would decrease the ability of the water column to accept the diffusion of oxygen?? Are you also including carbon dioxides diffusion in to the water column as being restricted by TDS??

I know that at TFK questioning presented facts is not appropriate so I am only asking for more information about this notion. I must be mistaken in thinking that oxygen diffusion influencing factors are air pressure, salt content, and temperature. Since the oxygen content of the air is constant so the rate of oxygen diffusion is defined by the saturation of the water at the air/water interface.

Considering photosynthesis, if one has live plants, will the relationship between TDS & oxygen diffusion into the water column be the same as with air/water interface? What happens when photosynthetically produced oxygen cannot be diffused into the water column, will the plants revert to respiration state and release valuable carbon dioxide?

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post #2 of 8 Old 05-07-2013, 01:06 PM
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As the author, I would suggest you peruse the references. I am not a chemist, nor a botanist; I research scholarly articles and present a summary of the scientific data in the hopes that it will help many of us including myself understand what is occurring in an aquarium, and particularly those aspects which have been shown to directly affect fish, negatively or positively.

Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
Vancouver, BC, Canada

The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian. [unknown source]

Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If you’re going to take it under your wing then you’re responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]
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post #3 of 8 Old 05-07-2013, 03:57 PM Thread Starter
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Hello Author Bryon:
Thanks for the suggestion about peruse the references but it isn’t much help because I don’t have access to the all of the references. Since you are not a chemist or a botanist and neither am I, I am not questioning your summary of scientific data I am just looking for answers to a question that you proposed. Could you not be so protective of the data and share the author and title of the scientific facts about relationship between oxygen diffusion and total dissolved solids and indicate if salt is the tds that restricts the saturation of oxygen!

I think its nice to research scholarly articles and parrot the information as you understand the data’s impact on general knowledge of fish keeping helping all of to better grasp the events going on in our aquariums and for this I thank you.

So shoot the juice to me bruce and post a link to this important data about oxygen diffusion and total dissolved solids and its interpretation.

pop

Ps…. In your article you provide references but not the actual citation that you are copying and this is what I would like to have access too.
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post #4 of 8 Old 05-07-2013, 05:17 PM
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How about a link to Byron's article?
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post #5 of 8 Old 05-07-2013, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tolak View Post
How about a link to Byron's article?
This and some other articles are in the Freshwater Article section of the forum. Here's the direct link to this particular article:
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/f...hanges-117205/

Byron.

Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
Vancouver, BC, Canada

The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian. [unknown source]

Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If you’re going to take it under your wing then you’re responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]
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post #6 of 8 Old 05-07-2013, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pop View Post
Hello Author Bryon:
Thanks for the suggestion about peruse the references but it isn’t much help because I don’t have access to the all of the references. Since you are not a chemist or a botanist and neither am I, I am not questioning your summary of scientific data I am just looking for answers to a question that you proposed. Could you not be so protective of the data and share the author and title of the scientific facts about relationship between oxygen diffusion and total dissolved solids and indicate if salt is the tds that restricts the saturation of oxygen!

I think its nice to research scholarly articles and parrot the information as you understand the data’s impact on general knowledge of fish keeping helping all of to better grasp the events going on in our aquariums and for this I thank you.

So shoot the juice to me bruce and post a link to this important data about oxygen diffusion and total dissolved solids and its interpretation.

pop

Ps…. In your article you provide references but not the actual citation that you are copying and this is what I would like to have access too.
I'm not hiding anything, believe me, but some of these articles are involved and I can't remember where this or that point may have come from.

But on salt, no, that is not the only thing. All TDS affect the chemistry. One aspect that does occur to me has to do with the TDS restricting light penetration, which in turn slows photosynthesis, thus reducing oxygen production. Another aspect is that TDS cause a temperature rise, and of course this reduces oxygen. Some minerals readily bind with oxygen; not sure where that goes.
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Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
Vancouver, BC, Canada

The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian. [unknown source]

Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If you’re going to take it under your wing then you’re responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]
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post #7 of 8 Old 05-07-2013, 06:11 PM
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my head hurts now
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post #8 of 8 Old 05-08-2013, 07:14 AM Thread Starter
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Salutations Byron:

I do believe you and that you are not hiding any information and I also agree some readings are very difficult and abstract, so much I have to read some things more than once to get the story right. I trust your understanding of complicated concepts and accept your thoughts on this issue. In fact your response fits very well into my understanding and model of oxygen diffusion. Thank you for your candor.

What you said about “TDS restricting light penetration, which in turn slows photosynthesis, thus reducing oxygen production” works well with a previous thread post about how too much oxygen passing over the plants roots (under gravel filter) can result in plants ceasing photosynthesis and going into a state of respiration releasing carbon dioxide and also increasing temperature.

It is difficult to take each scrap of information and fit it into a workable schema yet I foolishly try too, one thing is for certain there is always more to learn.

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