overstocked ????? - Page 2 - Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources
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post #11 of 29 Old 01-10-2010, 11:14 AM Thread Starter
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its probably a bit smaller than that one
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post #12 of 29 Old 01-11-2010, 04:45 PM
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That'd be a Gold Algae eater, grows to be about 12", their behavior is just as good/ bad as the rep for their non albion fried the Chinese algae eaters.

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post #13 of 29 Old 01-12-2010, 11:08 AM Thread Starter
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the lady in the petshop sed they grow quite slow is this true
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post #14 of 29 Old 01-12-2010, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by MoneyMitch View Post
overstocked only applies if you do minimual w/c and have lots of time inbetween. all will be fine in your tank if you do 25-35% w/c every three days or so and have atleast 5x filtration a hr. if your not willing to do that then yes you are overstocked.
If you are defining overstocked based on the ability of your filter to handle the waste load, then I agree with this statement above.

Personally, I think a tank should be stocked based on the ability of its inhabitants to live a long health life, based on their adult size. Being overstocked could also be an indication of the likelihood that the fish in the tank are going to develop aggressive behaviors towards each other as they grow. In this case, the tank is overstocked.
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post #15 of 29 Old 01-12-2010, 11:30 AM Thread Starter
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i have decided that if any fish get too big i will ask the pet shop i purchased them from if i can swap them for smaller fish of an equal price
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post #16 of 29 Old 01-12-2010, 05:11 PM
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i have decided that if any fish get too big i will ask the pet shop i purchased them from if i can swap them for smaller fish of an equal price
There is a problem with this approach that I'll try to explain.

According to information from biologists I have read to date, it is my understanding that fish continue to grow throughout their lives, unlike us for example [except I guess in girth]. Keeping a potentially large fish in a small tank does often negatively affect its growth, but this is not a benign process resulting in the creation of a miniature version of a normal adult; rather it is known as stunting, and this has negative impacts on the fish's health. Internal problems may not manifest themselves for years, but they can lead to an early death for the fish. Immune system problems have frequently been traced to stress, and a fish that is built to grow but is prevented from doing so by the physical restriction of the tank with the accompanying poorer water qualtiy (in relation to the fish's needs) is bound to experience stress.

One of the obvious issues is poisoning from ammonia. It is known that even levels of ammonia that are well below toxic to a fish can hamper the fish's growth. Fish produce waste, and as I have written elsewhere no filter can remove the urine and liquefied solid waste, only a water change does this. The smaller the volume of water in relation to the fish--including their number and size as this affects the amount of waste entering the water continually--the more toxic it becomes within hours. Experiments carried out by knowledgeable individuals like Jack Whattley and David Boruchowitz have proven that it is the water quality more than the physical dimensions of smaller tanks that impact most on a potentially large fish.

Where this leads is that any fish with the potential to grow to a large size should only be housed in a tank that provides sufficient space and thus adequate water quality to allow what nature intends for the fish. The relatively fast growth rate of fish will be negatively impacted by inadequate housing long before the physical size of the fish might suggest larger quarters.

Byron.

Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
Vancouver, BC, Canada

The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian. [unknown source]

Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If youíre going to take it under your wing then youíre responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]
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post #17 of 29 Old 01-13-2010, 04:41 AM Thread Starter
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thanks i try to keep my water quality as good as possible with doing a 20-30% change a week
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post #18 of 29 Old 01-13-2010, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Byron View Post
According to information from biologists I have read to date, it is my understanding that fish continue to grow throughout their lives, unlike us for example [except I guess in girth]. Keeping a potentially large fish in a small tank does often negatively affect its growth, but this is not a benign process resulting in the creation of a miniature version of a normal adult; rather it is known as stunting, and this has negative impacts on the fish's health. Internal problems may not manifest themselves for years, but they can lead to an early death for the fish. Immune system problems have frequently been traced to stress, and a fish that is built to grow but is prevented from doing so by the physical restriction of the tank with the accompanying poorer water qualtiy (in relation to the fish's needs) is bound to experience stress.
Hey Byron, you wouldn't happen to have a source for this would you? I'm trying to explain this to a friend of mine, and he won't hear a word I say. If I can get some proof he'll stop keeping an angelfish in a 15 gallon tank.

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post #19 of 29 Old 01-13-2010, 09:40 AM
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Hey Byron, you wouldn't happen to have a source for this would you? I'm trying to explain this to a friend of mine, and he won't hear a word I say. If I can get some proof he'll stop keeping an angelfish in a 15 gallon tank.
Tell you friend to join the forum...we'll explain and back you up (That is a VERY unfortunate set up for an Angel)

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post #20 of 29 Old 01-13-2010, 12:47 PM
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Hey Byron, you wouldn't happen to have a source for this would you? I'm trying to explain this to a friend of mine, and he won't hear a word I say. If I can get some proof he'll stop keeping an angelfish in a 15 gallon tank.
The short answer is ask any knowledgeable aquarist, they'll tell him. But yes, there are numerous articles about this if he needs it in writing. One of the best was by Laura Muha in the December 2005 or 2006 issue of TFH entitled "Fish Growth vs. Tank Size" in her then-monthly column "The Skeptical Fishkeeper." Ms. Muha consulted and cited from numerous biologists, scientists and experienced aquarists in presenting her material. More recently, there was a 2-part article in the November and December 2009 issues of TFH by David Boruchowitz on water changes and why they are essential; the reasons touch on the same points about pollution and fish health.

Byron.

Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
Vancouver, BC, Canada

The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian. [unknown source]

Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If youíre going to take it under your wing then youíre responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]
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