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Oranda bit of more than it could chew - Help!

This is a discussion on Oranda bit of more than it could chew - Help! within the Freshwater and Tropical Fish forums, part of the Freshwater Fish and Aquariums category; --> Hey Izzy, Well I've fasted my little Mona now for one day and will refrain from feeding her this evening and tomorrow evening but ...

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Oranda bit of more than it could chew - Help!
Old 07-26-2012, 05:56 PM   #11
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Hey Izzy,

Well I've fasted my little Mona now for one day and will refrain from feeding her this evening and tomorrow evening but on Sunday if there's no change I will feed some blanched spinach.

What I'm noticing is that she's spending a lot of time at the bottom of her tank - does this mean she's constipated and unable to properly control her swim-bladder?

It definitely look like she has a harder time than normal to stay afloat... it looks like her little front fins are working harder to keep her from sinking.

Being as she is such a small fish and my blunt tweezers are probably too big for her mouth... is a bobby pin the best method for extracting it?

I'm definitely worried

When it comes to feeding her (again keeping in mind that she's on a very small fish) what is the usual recommended amount that I should feed her?

Thanks Izzy!
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Old 07-26-2012, 06:15 PM   #12
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Hi again Izzy (and anyone else)

Would if my fish is experiencing some digestive issues, would Melafix be a good idea to treat for 7 days with?
I am going to fast for 2-3 days and then I’m thinking of feeding some blanched spinach but I think my fish needs to pass… if you know what I mean.

Thanks very much!

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Old 07-26-2012, 08:38 PM   #13
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Spending a lot of time at the bottom of the tank isn't indicative of one specific thing. It's generally a sign that the fish isn't feeling well. Kinda like when you feel tired and worn down; it's not going to point to a specific disease, but it is a sign that something's not right with your body.

Now this taken with the pea problem could mean constipation. Is she still yawning? Can you see the pea? If she's swallowed it I would bet money that she's constipated. In that case spinach is great to help her pass it. If she won't eat, then fasting is the next best option. The pea could be pressing on her swim bladder and be making it harder for her to control it; this often happens with constipation. If this happens too many times her swim bladder can have permanent damage.

I would not use Melafix in this situation. When actually fighting bacterial or fungal infections it's best to go for the heavy stuff right away instead of dancing around with remedies like Melafix and Pimafix. Also treating with these remedies when there isn't a confirmed infection can lead to resistant strains of the disease.

As for how much you should be feeding her, small amounts multiple times daily. I have a young goldfish that I recently bought who gets fed 4-5 times a day, but very small amounts each time (roughly about the size of her eye or how much she could eat in a mouthful). This allows for the best absorption of nutrients. For older fish (over a year old) you want to feed them 1-2 times a day as they aren't using the protein for growth just maintenance.
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Old 07-27-2012, 08:19 AM   #14
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Change in my tank... My little fishy Mona has now gone very floaty!

I think the pea is now gone and about 5 hours earlier she was much more perky. She's a bit more mellow now and her dorsal fin is down a bit... I don't know whether to think that things are getting better or just changing.

On a slight side note today a load of small little white worn looking things have collected on the glass of my tank and some of the plants. They are really small... Like a grain of sand but I can see them moving.

What do you suggest?

Thanks for all your support I'm eternally in your debt!!

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Old 07-27-2012, 08:38 AM   #15
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Last thing as well, when people mention that digestive that disrupt thw swim bladder can end up being permanent.... How long might it take for damage to be permanent? Are the chances quite high? Is it better or worse for a small and growing fish?

Thank you!!!
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Old 07-27-2012, 04:17 PM   #16
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Sorry for the barrage up further posts but something very strange just happened.

My fish doesn't look amazingly happy.. Normally when she is her dorsal fin is very straight. It seems to be wilting a bit.. Not really clasped just a bit more limp than usual but the weirdest thing.... I just saw her throw up a big white globule of something and then quickly eat it back up. I couldn't really tell what it was but since the arrival of these little white sand sized worm/bug sort of things we decided to throw one of our plants away and it had a big white globule of something attached to the bottom....

Have you got any idea what may be going on with my poor little fish and my tank?

She's not eaten anything now for a few years.. Today is day three.

Many thanks

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Old 07-27-2012, 08:00 PM   #17
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Hi Rich, don't worry about posting a lot. You can only edit posts for so long, and if something new has happened we're going to need to know about it.

I'm glad to hear that the pea is gone. Her having her dorsal fin down just means she isn't back to 100%. I don't really blame her. The pea ordeal has been pretty rough on her.

Those little worm things are planaria. They appear when the tank is getting dirty. You mentioned a plant with a white glob on it. They could have been feeding on the dying plant. With goldfish you need to give the substrate a good vacuum either weekly or bi-weekly. They poop a lot, and excess poop in the substrate contributes to those worms.

The real danger from digestive problems leading to swim bladder problems comes from many feedings. A single feeding or incident won't usually unless it was really traumatic. I don't think this particular incident will, but you should change her diet to pellets like New Life Spectrum.

To me it sounds like she has her appetite back. Goldfish will sometimes spit out something when it isn't positioned correctly in their mouths. I'm not too sure how good it was for her to eat that white glob, but there isn't really much you can do to make her spit it out. I think a good substrate vacuum will help clean up any of that stuff left in the gravel.

Also I do want to add that fish can go much longer without eating than warm-bloods like mammals can. Because fish don't have to expend the energy keeping their bodies at a constant temperate, they don't need as many calories as we (or cats or dogs) do. My goldfish are getting ready to go 5 days without food as I'm going on vacation and won't have anyone to feed them.
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Old 07-28-2012, 08:09 AM   #18
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Hey izzy,

Well this is what I've done.

I've now got rid of all the plants in the tank
I've given it a good clean onside the walls and cleared off any algae
I removed and took apart the filter giving it a good clean as it had quite a lt of gunk in it.
I completed a 35% water change
I fed her some blanched spinach

She seems to be much better and the water in the tank looks great now although having checked the water parameters before I did all this, they did appear to be pretty good.
7.6 pH
0 Nitrite
0-0.1 ammonia
10 Nitrate

I'm now feeling much better about the situation and my fishy mona is looking so much better and much more stable... She seems to be in control of her swim bladder again. Thanks for all your advice Izzy.. I don't really trust my local fish shop so I always prefer to get the advice for people who genuinely care!
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Old 07-28-2012, 02:26 PM   #19
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I'm really glad I could help! I have a love of goldfish and am always willing to lend all of my knowledge to someone else who cares for them as much as I do. It's great that little Mona is getting back to normal. You could have her for around 10 years. Many local fish stores just don't understand how to take care of goldfish. They're more difficult than most people think.

If you're wondering about the ammonia spike, it happened to me when I removed all of my plants from goldfish tank. Also doing a complete clean of the filter with tap water (or any non-treated water) will kill some of the biological filter that makes up the nitrogen cycle. My filters get really dirty if I don't clean them for a week, too. But I make sure to clean the media in old tank water. I have a 5 gallon bucket that has never been used for anything but fish water, and I fill that with old tank water when doing a water change. I rinse off the filter media in that. It turns the water brown as teat, and it looks really nasty. But it's great for plants! And it preserves your bio-bugs!
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Old 08-02-2012, 05:06 PM   #20
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Hi Izzy,

I just thought i'd give you a bit of an update - Generally Mona is much better and we thing she's been much happier... that is until i fed her a flake yesterday and since then she's been really floaty.

I'm going out shortly to pick up some of the NLS small fish pellets and completely stop from using the flakes.

We don't think she's a huge fan of eating blanched spinach either which is a shame... is there anything you can suggest?

But generally thank you so much for all your help we really think it helped to make her get better!
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