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Issues with Diseases, Stocking, Water and More. - Expert Help Needed.

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Issues with Diseases, Stocking, Water and More. - Expert Help Needed.
Old 07-01-2012, 03:48 PM   #51
 
if you still have the meds from treating burt just run a treatment through the quarantine tank. Internal worms are really not something you can screen for. They don't show up until they have been around for awhile.
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Old 07-04-2012, 03:01 PM   #52
 
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if you still have the meds from treating burt just run a treatment through the quarantine tank. Internal worms are really not something you can screen for. They don't show up until they have been around for awhile.
Yea he has been in the QT Tank for almost a week now...

Still seeing stringy poop, although he has come out of hiding. He got more color and is eating a little bit.

You suggest a full treatment of Levamisole HCl (that is what I used for burt) just in case?
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Old 07-05-2012, 09:21 AM   #53
 
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Aside from popular belief to the contrary, poop is NOT necessarily an indicator of illness. . . more likely diet. . . or so we've been told by reliable sources ;)

Sorry, Term - you know how cautious I am - I'm always worried about 'killing with the cure' so to speak - especially with the more sensitive little Bolivians. . . If it were me, I'd wait it out for a bit longer and see how it goes - it sounds like he's doing much better now that he's on his own, but he hasn't been in there for very long yet.

You said he was coloring up and feeling more comfortable in the QT tank away from the others, right? Perhaps you should just give him a bit of time before stressing him out with meds. You aren't *SURE* he's sick? Maybe he's just stressed out, and your water isn't ideal for the species anyway. . .

From what I've read, and seen with my own eyes - though Bolivian Rams are considered to be more hearty than the other rams, and many other sensitive soft-water cichlids, they're still touchy. These guys stress easily, and it can take them some time to feel at ease once they've gone stressed on you - yours has gone through quite a bit of moving and bullying and moving again in a short period of time. Just something to think about. . . they don't react to things in the same way as any of my other fish, and perhaps you haven't had this guy long enough to know how he is personality-wise. One of my little rams is far more prone to stressing out than the others, and takes longer than the rest to recover. Perhaps you just have a bit of a fussy guy on your hands?

I'd hate to tell you NOT to medicate if there DOES turn out to be a problem, but. . . medicating without knowing the real problem is equally dangerous.

What is he eating? Is he filling out at all? Can you get any clear pics of his vent that show the redness that you're worried about? How about the water parameters in HIS tank? I know you've been doing water changes using RO water - what's the nitrate level sitting at now?

Something else to think on is that Bolivian Rams are sensitive to Nitrates - not just HIGH nitrates, but (in my experience) ANY FLUCTUATION in the nitrate levels (this is why it's recommended that they be added to an established tank). Even if your nitrates shift between levels that are fine for the fish, they WILL show some stress simply because there has been a change. This I've seen with my own eyes...

Remember, please, that your tanks are very much in a state of flux right now. This little ram might simply be reacting to those changes. . . I don't know if it's a good idea to add to his stress by dumping more chemicals into his tank! *worries*

Last edited by Chesh; 07-05-2012 at 09:27 AM..
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Old 07-05-2012, 10:32 AM   #54
 
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Originally Posted by Chesherca View Post
Aside from popular belief to the contrary, poop is NOT necessarily an indicator of illness. . . more likely diet. . . or so we've been told by reliable sources ;)

Sorry, Term - you know how cautious I am - I'm always worried about 'killing with the cure' so to speak - especially with the more sensitive little Bolivians. . . If it were me, I'd wait it out for a bit longer and see how it goes - it sounds like he's doing much better now that he's on his own, but he hasn't been in there for very long yet.

You said he was coloring up and feeling more comfortable in the QT tank away from the others, right? Perhaps you should just give him a bit of time before stressing him out with meds. You aren't *SURE* he's sick? Maybe he's just stressed out, and your water isn't ideal for the species anyway. . .

From what I've read, and seen with my own eyes - though Bolivian Rams are considered to be more hearty than the other rams, and many other sensitive soft-water cichlids, they're still touchy. These guys stress easily, and it can take them some time to feel at ease once they've gone stressed on you - yours has gone through quite a bit of moving and bullying and moving again in a short period of time. Just something to think about. . . they don't react to things in the same way as any of my other fish, and perhaps you haven't had this guy long enough to know how he is personality-wise. One of my little rams is far more prone to stressing out than the others, and takes longer than the rest to recover. Perhaps you just have a bit of a fussy guy on your hands?

I'd hate to tell you NOT to medicate if there DOES turn out to be a problem, but. . . medicating without knowing the real problem is equally dangerous.

What is he eating? Is he filling out at all? Can you get any clear pics of his vent that show the redness that you're worried about? How about the water parameters in HIS tank? I know you've been doing water changes using RO water - what's the nitrate level sitting at now?

Something else to think on is that Bolivian Rams are sensitive to Nitrates - not just HIGH nitrates, but (in my experience) ANY FLUCTUATION in the nitrate levels (this is why it's recommended that they be added to an established tank). Even if your nitrates shift between levels that are fine for the fish, they WILL show some stress simply because there has been a change. This I've seen with my own eyes...

Remember, please, that your tanks are very much in a state of flux right now. This little ram might simply be reacting to those changes. . . I don't know if it's a good idea to add to his stress by dumping more chemicals into his tank! *worries*
Yeah that is why I posted it and haven't treated it yet hahaha. I dunno if he has it for sure, i want to take a closer look before anything is done.

I don't see any worms yet and its been 4 weeks yesterday. The little guy in the 10 gallon is getting better, he has colored up more and darkened back up but is still stringy white poop. He still seems a little stressed in there....haven't seen him eat too well but his belly isn't shrunken in. I'll have to take a picture when I get home tonight.

The thing is I haven't started to do water changes with R.O. water in that tank. Only the 20 and 29. I'm going to start doing that now and then see what happens. Hopefully that will help him.

I don't see the redness in there any more. In none of them. I'm going to take some pics of all of them.
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Old 07-05-2012, 03:27 PM   #55
 
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Sounds like things are looking up, then!!! HUZZAH for happier fishies! Maybe you could try feeding them something different for a day or two, and see if that changes things. Peas would be a good start - they're pretty obvious when they come back out ;)
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Old 07-05-2012, 03:31 PM   #56
 
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Sounds like things are looking up, then!!! HUZZAH for happier fishies! Maybe you could try feeding them something different for a day or two, and see if that changes things. Peas would be a good start - they're pretty obvious when they come back out ;)
haha I will try doing pees for a couple days. I want to get some live food or frozen food for them too.
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Old 07-05-2012, 03:38 PM   #57
 
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Frozen food will be happily devoured! They love just about everything I've ever tossed at them, though after several recommendations, I've stopped feeding bloodworm (which may have been their fave). It seems that many of the protozoa showing up in aquariums are possibly being linked back to bloodworm - be they fresh or frozen. I don't know if it's true, but I'd rather be safe than sorry! My fish devour Brine, Mysis, Krill, Glassworm - and others that I can't think of just now. Pretty much anything. They also love their veggies! Depending on how the changes in their diet affect their stool, you may want to think about switching to a different food for their generic feedings.
New Life Spectrum Cichlid formula New Life Spectrum Cichlid formula
works for me - and was highly recommended. You live close - let me know if you want me to mail you some to try before you buy it. This one container will last me for AGES!
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Old 07-19-2012, 12:27 PM   #58
 
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I currently have the two male Bolivian Rams in the 29 gallon and the third male in the 20 gallon.

I know their males now mainly because all their vents are the same. They have small vents the point backwards. The two more dominant ones in the 29 have started developing their longer dorsal and caudal fins. They have colored up really nice and have been doing well, although they are not doing great with one another as a lot of you noted earlier in this forum, especially Byron. The two males should not be kept together. It was my mistake in sexing them when i got them. Those fish store employees were not help either.

This winter I am planning on getting rid of my 20 gallon tank which I will either sell or give to my mother. I will then get a new 50 Long or 55 Gallon tank. This tank will be a 100% strict amazon biotope and I would like to move the three males into that tank and introduce either 3-4 CERTAIN females. Any thoughts on this? Another option would be to keep one pair in the 29 and two in the 50/55. I would ideally like to use the 29 gallon for my mollies and platies once I get the new tank though, I would like to put the Kribensis in there.

Right now the Kribensis is in the 10 gallon. The Gourami is in the 20 with the Bolivian Ram. If the third Bolivian Ram doesn't get well soon, I am going to work something with Chesh so that I can give him to her. She has an open 10 Gallon that he could go into. This is an option I am considering if I don't think I can keep him healthy until the new tank. In all honesty, two males might be enough for a 55 gallon. The only problem will be finding the females.

I have things to consider, but I would like to keep all three of my rams, but what is best for the fish is best for the fish.

You can see in this video, after I changed the hardscape...the two males rams are have established their halves of the tank. Their not that comfortable as they have to constantly fend off their area from the fellow ram but I think they will be fine until I get the new tank as long as I don't make any drastic changes until then. When the plants grow it will cover the line of sight more hopefully helping them out.

When I changed the hardscape they were going after one another, now they are settling down and more or less just keeping to themselves. Only after feeding do they get a little touchy.

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Old 07-19-2012, 01:00 PM   #59
 
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Glad to hear that the two are settling in, at least. . . rams stress easily, and these three have been through their fair share of changes since coming home - plus with the changes in how you're doing in the water/nitrate, and changes to the scape of the tank - hopefully now that things are going to be a bit more stable, they will continue to calm down and settle into their new home.

As for that other little one. . . *cries* I hope you can work it out for him to remain with you happily, but yeah - if not (and if you can't find a buyer), you know he'll have a good home with my Bolivian-obsessed self. If you lived less than 2.5 hours away from me, I'd have already kidnapped him, you know. ;)

As far as your plans for the 20 vs the 55 and stocking more rams. . . I'm falling back on the fact that BR sold in normal pet shops are too young to properly sex, as a general rule. The idea of trying for a male/female pair to live alone in a tank, I think, should be discarded. Rams can be funny about that kind of thing - they have to be able to pick their own mate, and though I've read instances where they can be faithful for life, I've also read many examples (Byron's being only one) of a mating pair suddenly turning on one-another. I suspect that you would be better off to get a grouping of 6 for your 55g tank - if you *can* get 4 fems to 2 males, this might work out, and you can separate the current couples (if any) to spawn when they're ready (if you're interested in breeding them)

Having a live-bearer species tank is a great idea - of course I would say so, as I'm planning mine right now, lol! I don't know about that Krib, tho. . .she's a nippy little thing! I guess you'll just have to see how that works out.

The video looks good, rams squabble from time to time - it's just their nature! I compare mine to boys on the schoolyard punching shoulders and shoving to see who's toughest. Keep an eye out (I know you are) for any actual HARM or excess stress caused by their scrapping. As long as fins remain intact, no actual injuries are dealt, and nobody seems over stressed (hiding, skittish, pale, not eating, darkening) I'd say this is normal Bolivian behavior (from what I've seen and read - you know I'm new at this, too!)

Good luck, and please continue to keep us posted!
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Old 07-19-2012, 01:15 PM   #60
 
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I don't see anything there with respect to the rams. Some challenges from time to time is fine, this is their natural behaviour. I may or may not get violent.

And as for adding females, this can be more trouble as Chesherca said. Sexing this species is next to impossible at the immature age they are at in most stores. Finding some that are larger might help, and then observe carefully how they react in the store tank. This is the best way to tell males from females, their interaction.

Even so, there is no guarantee the males in your tank will accept the female(s) you add. Mine didn't.

On another note, observe how the neons remain above the pile of rock and branches. Perfectly natural behaviour.

Byron.
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