HELP! my fish are getting beat up!

LOUIE ACES

hey byron thanks man, it looks like the ick is gone. i dont see any more spots on any of my fish. but now i'm back to my original problem...my angels are getting their fins destroyed by something again...i'll give a list of all my stock and maybe i'm still overlooking something.

75 Gallon Tank:

5 assorted angelfish (3 of which veil tails)
1 black ghost knife fish
1 royal pleco
1 clown pleco
1 albino rainbow shark
1 rainbow shark
1 redtail shark
1 striped raphael catfish
1 loricaria whiptail catfish
12 neon tetras
1 pimelodella pictus catfish

i'm noticing that my leopard angel is looking great but three of my other angels are getting nipped and every day they look a little worse. now the beat up ones kind of hang around the top of the tank with their mouths pointed up when they used to swim around a lot more. any suggestions?

Byron

I have read that neons (and some other characins) will nip fins of angels, but more likely the angels will consider the neons food and eat them (when the angels are large enough). The knifefish is a natural predator; I have never kept one and don't know if it will fin nip, but being a predator it wouldn't surprise me. Myself, I would not keep a knifefish with any small fish (the neons will be food for the knifefish in time) nor something as sedate as angels.

The three different "sharks" would cause problems I would expect, as they are territorial. Don't suspect them of nipping fins, but they can be aggressive with conspecifics and the different sharks are closely related.

Some of the afore-mentioned aggression can be slightly reduced in large enough quarters, but the natural tendancy of these fish is as stated and the potential is always present.

LOUIE ACES

wow you're right! i just researched it and neons are known fin-nippers. looks like it's time to say good bye to them. i figure i'll donate my rainbow shark to the local pet store too. hey btw, would it be too much to add a discus to the tank?

Byron

I have been keeping SA fish for more than 15 years, and I have not yet ventured into discus. They are very sensitive to water parameters and quality. Many discus keepers do daily 50% water changes. I don't mean this is absolutely necessary, but it gives you an idea of how much work discus will be. And, they are very limited in terms of tankmates. Discus require much warmer water and only quiet fish as tankmates. Cardinal tetras do well, neons do not (too warm), and some corys (only those that can take the "heat" which not all corys can). Only the whiptail and pleco in your list would suit a discus environment.

I noticed I forgot the piuctus catfish before, I have read that they can be aggressive, so there is another possibile source of trouble.

aunt kymmie

Just a comment on the pictus as far as my experience. I keep one and have had one since he was a tiny three incher, he's now more than double that. I've never observed him being aggressive except for when a loach tries to enter his cave "area". His behavior is more "grumpy" than aggressive. When my barbs or rams venture into his territory he leaves them completely alone. It's as if he knows the difference between other bottom dwellers that may be competing with him. I've never seen my pictus nip, just chase, and he doesn't chase far. IMHO, I doubt a pictus would be interested in an angel. JMO, based on my experience. It may be that I happen to keep an exceptional pictus. In your case I'd blame the tetras.

LOUIE ACES

well i think this is the end to my problems. i donated the tetras to the pet store and picked up a few new angels and a clown loach. my tank is clearing up nicely and none of my fish seem to be taking on any more injuries. everyone seems much happier now! thanks to everybody who added input to help me fix my aquarium status! i'm sure i'll be talking to you guys sooner or later...

Byron

Glad to hear things are resolving. I'm sorry to add a negative, but I would caution against the clown loach. While it won't bother the angels, it is a shoaling fish that does better in a small group so it will be "happier" and therefore healthier. However, they are large fish, growing to 12+ inches, and a 75g will not be adequate in the long term. You might want to return the clown loach and have a look at several of the loaches that are smaller adult (maximum 4-5 inches fully grown), all are shoaling (minimum 3 but 5-6 is OK in a 75g) and several of them are quite peaceful with each other as well as other fish in the tank (not all small loaches are). Here's a good site on loaches: Loaches Online - Community Edition — Loaches Online Or keep the angels happy with other SA bottom fish like corydoras and other small catfish (Farlowella are excellent algae eaters, as are whiptails) or one of the small pleco species.

Byron.

LOUIE ACES

ok another question, i bought the clown loach because my cichlid tank has a snail infestation and it's getting to be overwhelming. so if i don't have adequate housing for the clown loaches, what are my other options to get rid of the snails other then chemicals? i want to stay away from adding chemicals to get rid of them so i was looking into buying a fish or maybe invertabrate but i also have to worry about my cichlids trying to eat them before they get to the snails.....

Byron

Other loaches will eat snails, some species more than others; I think that is one of the bits of info on each species in the link I posted previously. Of course, if you don't really want loaches other than for snail removal, that's different. Myself, I would not buy a fish solely to solve a snail problem.

Snails occur because conditions are right, both water chemistry and food. I have very soft tap water and keep it soft and slightly acidic in all my tanks, so pond snails do not last too long; they tend to lay eggs and hatch, but most don't survive due to calcium-low water (too soft, no minerals). Malaysian livebearers thrive (writers say they can adjust to differing water conditions better) which doesn't bother me because they meander through the substrate keeping it cleaner and better oxygen/nitrogen exchange so better for the aerobic/anaerobic bacteria process. They also colonize the filter chambers, so they must be a benefit on the biological cycle throughout the tank. If they became too many for my preference, I would simply remove them and out they go into the garden or compost (won't survive long out of water).

The other issue is food; if there is too much for them to eat, they will proliferate accordingly. So not overfeeding and regular maintainance all work to keep them within reason.

I would never add chemicals to a tank to rid it of snails (or algae). Many of these chemicals have other effects on the equilibrium and ultimately on the fish. The less stuff added to an aquarium the better for the biological equilibrium and the inhabitants. I believe copper is one mineral used in snail eradicators, and copper is deadly to fish above minimal amounts (plants need it, but in balance). One has to be careful.

LOUIE ACES

yeah that's what i've been doing. they get so numerous that they end up being all over the bottom of the tank, on the glass and the decor, and i wind up scooping up the gravel to take some of them out maybe once a month but there's no way i can get to a good amount of them without taking all my decor out of my tank which i'm not about to do...

i guess i'll just keep doing that since you say they're a good indicator of a healthy aquarium. i knew they were a beneficial part of the system but just figured they were multiplying like crazy just because thats what they do.