Project Kindergarten - Page 13 - Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources
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post #121 of 143 Old 01-31-2013, 06:08 PM Thread Starter
Chesh's Avatar
Awww, Sylver! I 'm so glad Ren and the sword tail are doing well. I don't really know what's going to happen with little Sunny. He's here now, in a QT tank all alone. . . he's eating well, but his spine is bowed, so. . . I don't know if he CAN recover. Still hoping so. As long as he wants to fight, I'll be right there with him!

Yes, Jen - the babies are in the main tank. The first 3 were born over Thanksgiving break. I'm sure that there were others, but they were all gone by the time we got there. . . so the 3 survivors were smart enough to stay out of sight and avoid the adults. The 4th little one was born over Christmas break, his mom is still pretty heavy, so I don't know how many more were there, or will be born, but for now he seems to be doing well. With the first batch of fry I DID trap them in a breeder net for a week or so. Really just so that the kids could get a really good look at them. It makes me nervous to leave them in that basket over the weekends, since there's so little for them to eat. But at this point the kids are pros at finding the little ones in the tank - they've learned where to look for them, and a student actually found the new arrival before I did!

I love frogs, too!!! I'm so excited to put one in that tank - though I AM a bit apprehensive at the same time. I have two little ADF that can go over. I put them in with my mollies so that they would have a chance to undergo some 'training' on how to coexist with livebearers in the tank. I'm going to be totally in charge of feeding them, which the kiddo's won't like much, but IS necessary if they're to survive in the main tank. I've done several large water changes to get rid of any residual medications, and I've put some carbon in the filter to make 100% sure it'll be clean and clear. The target date for adding the frogs and snail is next Wednesday. I'm also going to give them an indian almond leaf. Only ONE, lol, because I don't want the water to go softer, but DO want the children to have the experience of watching the transformation process that the leaf undergoes while underwater. . .

EDIT: Sylver, you out-posted me!!! No, I don't have any new pics, but I'll totally get some! I can send you a few pics of my other ADF if you just want to see some squishy frog cuteness. They ARE adorable lil' things, neh?!! As for Skinny Sunny, he's doing well! I DO use Emerald Entre' but I've been giving him several small feeds a day, usually something high-protein, then a veggie, then a 'normal' pellet or flake food. Trying to get some meat on his bones, and since he's all alone in there, it's easy to target feed him throughout the day - which, being a live-bearer, it's really the way their digestive process works best, anyway. Hope your pretty high-fin recovers. I'm not sure if I ever responded to your question before, but there ARE female hifins - I'll have to send you over a pic of some of my beauties . . . unfortunately, they were heavily pregnant when I brought them home initially, and didn't make it through the ich outbreak :(

Last edited by Chesh; 01-31-2013 at 06:13 PM.
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post #122 of 143 Old 02-02-2013, 05:52 PM
Can you post pics of the babies
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post #123 of 143 Old 02-02-2013, 06:14 PM Thread Starter
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Heehee, I'll try, Boxer. . . I'll try to get a shot of them. They're so small, in a tank so BIG!!! And I can't control the lighting like I can here in my home tanks. It's always daytime (obviously) when I go to the school, and they have an entire wall of windows, so there's a ton of glare. Plus I'm usually crawling over kids. But I'll do my best :)
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post #124 of 143 Old 02-02-2013, 11:47 PM
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You need to USE the kids to your advantage! Have them crowd round in a block the glare haha.
Looking forward to the baby pics! Especially as you said non were going to survive!!! Long live the lil fighters!
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55G tall planted community
15G Dwarf puffer tank
15G plant propagation tank
5G Snail breeding tank
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post #125 of 143 Old 02-03-2013, 01:25 AM Thread Starter
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Good thought, Nile, only. . . they're too darn SHORT to do me any good!!! *giggle*

I didn't say that NONE were gonna survive - only that I'm glad that they ALL didn't survive, and that the kids weren't there to see it - and that I don't intend on doing anything to prevent nature taking it's course! Think about it, hon. . . I have several female live-bearers in that tank, and so far only FOUR fry have appeared - and only on two occasions. Female Platy are pretty much ALWAYS pregnant. So I'm pretty sure that many, many, MANY more fry have vanished into the maws of the rest of them, than these four little buggers who were smart enough to survive. :) In my experience, there are usually at LEAST 30 fry in a brood. You get the odd one that'll be less, usually a new mom, or bad conditions, etc. But for the most part. . . yeah. Pretty sure there have been quite a few that didn't make it. Poor babies. I chalk it down to the tank creating it's own food during the long weekends and Christmas breaks! I know, I'm mean - but so is nature. I just don't want the kiddos to be like "OOOH! LOOK AT ALL THE BABIES! OH NO! THEY'RE EATING THEM! WAHHHHH! WE HATE FISH!" Plus the inevitable over-population/re-homing/feeding/grow-out issues that come from trying to save them all... too much work for me right now - in a tank that I can't watch, lol!

Last edited by Chesh; 02-03-2013 at 01:35 AM.
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post #126 of 143 Old 02-14-2013, 11:50 AM Thread Starter
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Time for an update...

So it's been . . .wow! 5-6 weeks since the last update!?? Sheesh. . .


Well, the old adage 'no news is good news' applies here, for the most part. . . After I ran the treatment on the tank, everything was fine. A couple of weeks of double water changes + carbon to remove all residual meds from the system, then we added an Apple snail, a Zebra Nerite FEMALE (the kids have been very interested in seeing fish eggs since they got fry - WHOOPS! Livebearers don't LAY eggs, lol!), a few Malaysian Trumpet Snails (fun to find!), and an African Dwarf frog (they LOVE him, of course!). The children have been even MORE excited about their tank, if that's possible, and love all of the new animals that we've been learning about . . .

The Meh...

Right up until this week, the only issue we've had since the medication went in was that the light was dying, and I didn't have the cash to front in getting a new bulb, so we lost some of our higher-light plants (mostly the fluffy Fanwort - but that was a fair amount of the 'filler' planting in that tank.) It's a bummer, but not a big deal, as all of the stuff in that tank was 'extras' from my home tanks, and I have plenty more where they came from, so no worries on my part. I put in a couple of pieces of Crypt. Spiralis from my 55g, because I noticed that in every coloring page the kids have, there is a grassy looking plant, so to the little ones are really enjoying having some in their own tank. It's still going through it's regrowth-after-melt, but lots to learn there for the kids. When I added the frog, my daughter INSISTED that I bring our 'frog house' for him I didn't want to, this is the ONLY artificial piece of deco that I keep in any of my tanks, and only because I've had it since we brought our first ADF home 1 year ago, and it's ALWAYS been in the frog tank - they use it constantly, too. . . every ADF I've owned really seems to like it, and I've never had the heart to take it away from them, lol! At this point it's covered over in moss, too - I didn't want to send it, but my daughter argued her point well, saying "Mommy, the frog that is still in that tank is HOME, even if his house isn't in there with him - he's happy. But this frog is going to a new home all alone, he might be scared and lonely for a while. He might feel happier if he had his house to make him know he's safe". Soooooo CUTE! She's right, I couldn't argue. So my moss-covered frog house is now in the Kindy tank, along with a couple of Anubias plants that I also moved from the frog tank. . .

The BAD!

So everything seemed to be going along really well, the tank back on track and thriving, fish healthy, plants growing again. . . and then my black-and-white Platy started looking a bit thin. At first, I thought (hoped and prayed) that it was just because she had recently delivered a brood (she had). I kept an eye on her, she ate, swam, fed well, and never reached a point where she was TOO skinny - just a bit thinner than usual for her. But on Monday morning - she was dead. At the end of last week I noticed that my Twin bar was *maybe* a smidge on the thin side, and intermittently hiding in the corner - again, eating well etc. . .he was found dead this morning. That's TWO in ONE week, after all of this time with no losses. Neither one of these fish were remotely as thin as Sunny was, and their backs never curved. . . but that's two in one week! On the flip-side, poor little Sunny is STILL in my QT tank here at home, bored out of his mind. His back is still bowed, but he's getting chubby, and aside from the new deformity he seems. . . fine!? I'm really at a loss here, and have pretty much reached the point of resignation. There is definitely something wrong - but I can't figure out what it is - or what to do about it. Water parameters consistently test perfectly, so that's still out. Only two of the fish presented with a bowed back, the very first loss, and Sunny - which is making me think illness - but all of the others seemed more or less okay until they died, or died seemingly suddenly with no symptoms noticed at all. It could maybe be stress from the classroom environment? Or maybe the cleaning crew is doing something that's causing them harm? Yet. . . we haven't lost the babies!? Is it possible that ALL of these fish, with the exception of the two that had spinal problems, were just. . . older? It seems like TOO many deaths in a short period of time for that to me. . . they came from different shops, but I have no idea how old they were when I got them. Any suggestions are really welcome here - I'm at a loss!

The END!

There you have it! Update of the month :) I'll try to get some new pictures tomorrow when I go in for my water change. I keep forgetting my camera when I go in, kind of hectic getting out the door in time with baby in tow or everything together for water changes. . . the camera just slips my mind
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post #127 of 143 Old 02-14-2013, 01:38 PM
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Well, when all else fails, do something that makes no sense...or less sense. lol Works for me sometimes...well, worked for me always until my Zombie Virus hit. Let's call yours the Kink Virus. lol Certainly is a kink in more ways than one.

Try covering the tank at night, if the cleaning crew is spraying something around the tank, that -might- help or even fix it. I'd also drop in a calcium thing for them to chew on. Might not cure it either, but it's possible you have some kind of bug that feeds off of them in a way they lose that much needed calcium and then all hell breaks loose. Not really a med or a cure, but sometimes a little extra vitamin fights off that nasty cold, so why not? lol
And I know it's not good for them, but try feeding them protein foods for two weeks(like daphnia, tubefixworms and a tad of brine shrimp), with an algae wafer every two days for the plant needs. Also turn up the heat to 82 and add in just one tablespoon of aquarium salt every three days. I did that and it perked up my buddies when I had some odd unknown through my platy tank year before last that caused skinniness and slowness. Didn't think much of it because it didn't get THIS bad, but hey, worked for me when I was a total newb to illnesses. lol Maybe it'll work for you. Or maybe it just made me feel better because it -seemed- to work. Junk food for a while, who doesn't enjoy that? If nothing else, they'll be happier when eating.

Come to think of it, the kids get to feed the fish sometimes, right? Do you make them wash their hands really, really good first and overly rinse so no soap may be left there? It's always a possibility the person feeding them could be making them ill too. And in a classroom with kids, there is always that chance someone may put something in a tank unseen. My little cousin dumped hot bubblebath water in my tank once. x.x I was so mad! Didn't lose anyone though, but she almost killed my tank. Her excuse: The fishies were cold and wanted a bubble bath!

Another member on here walked into the chat once and asked what to do when her daughter dumped a ton of fruity pebbles into their tank. lol You can teach them all you want, but if eyes aren't on the tank at all times when kids are around, you never know what may find its way in there.

Is it also possible the stuff in the tank gets shut off at night when they turn everything off, or that maybe the cleaners unplug stuff to plug in their vacuums and such and then plug them back in? When our power was flickering a whole lot and going off and on one day...that ended the life of several of my fish and made a few of them very ill once. Depending what is in the filter and what it helps with, it could hit your fish in any number of odd ways. Mine got lethargic, some straight up died, and others bobbled and hid, and some even refused to eat. I also had one dalmation molly literally throwing up food, I didn't even know fish threw up. ^^; My Dalmation never did recover, she stayed very thin for the rest of the time I had her...and speaking of bumps on the chin, about a week after this fiasco, my creamsicle molly had a "Mole" or zit or whatever looking thing on her chin for about a week before she died. It never did get bigger or anything, just was kinda there and she was thin until she passed.

Those are unfortunately the only things I have for you aside from TB going around with platies and barbs. =/ I just don't know, but as always, I wish you guys luck. Try not to get too upset, you'll end up like I did. ^^; Breaking out in hives and having nightmares about the tank every night. My Zombie Virus is giving me that stuff, I had a dream the other night that I woke up to every single one of my fish dead and floating around half rotted away, it was awful. Got up and checked everyone for about three hours. >_>;

Turning on the Aquarium lamp in the morning is MY cup of coffee.
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post #128 of 143 Old 02-14-2013, 01:45 PM
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Sorry to hear it...sudden unexplained fish deaths suck.

I read your whole thread ( fish soap opera!) and may have learned something, but I can't remember which page it was on. I have some fish who are looking gaunt and I'm pretty sure aren't eating (it's hard to tell for sure because of the sheer numbers in there). It never occurred to me that I could possibly treat this. Of course, if I remember correctly you medicated your fish by feeding them. I do remember metronidazole as being one med you used but I forget the other. Did this affect the plants at all? I am going to try and net the two out who are looking gaunt and see if they will eat before I try a cure. Unfortunately it will mean moving my betta out of his 10 gal palace and into a 2 gal temporarily.


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post #129 of 143 Old 02-14-2013, 03:27 PM Thread Starter
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Hey, Plummy! Glad you stopped in . . . don't believe you actually read the ENTIRE thread, lol! Glad you enjoyed it, and learned some things!

Yes, I used General Cure Powder, made by API. The two medications in the powder (which you should be able to find at PetSmart) are Metronidazole and Praziquantel. Together these two meds treat a fairly broad range of protozoan and parasitic problems - should have been just a couple of pages back, that wasn't very long ago. . . I tried it in this case, but it was kind of a shot in the dark, and I'm not entirely sure if it worked, considering that I just lost 2 fish in a week - though things have been going well for over a month now, and the one that was terribly bad off is still swimming. . . so who knows. I'm just confused right now!

In another situation, I used it to treat one of my Bolivian Rams, C.Cat (papa!) for a protozoan infection with amazing results (look at him now!) Details of that can be found on this very old thread. . . along with a lot of information about the medication and how to use it. In the most recent case, I treated the food with the medicated powder, then fed it to the fish two times a day over a period of 3 days. Then, after a water change, I treated the tank with the medication per package instructions.

I've never had a problem with this medication and plants, but keep in mind that any medication is stressful on your animals, so do your best to keep the treatment tank as stress-free as you possibly can, and always run an airstone when you're medicating. Bear in mind that the BEST policy is never to medicate unless you're 100% SURE what you're treating, and never mix medicines. In *most* cases, a low-stress level and clean water will be all you need to help a fish heal itself, and medication shouldn't be necessary. With your little ones, if they've gone very gaunt and aren't eating, this may be a last-ditch effort for you.

I'm so sorry you're dealing with a similar situation - hopefully the General Cure does the trick for you. . .

Last edited by Chesh; 02-14-2013 at 03:30 PM.
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post #130 of 143 Old 02-14-2013, 03:40 PM
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That "Frog House" is also the only artificial thing I have in my tank.
I bought it for my betta's first tank, but now the corys use it.
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