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If patience is the challenge… well, challenge accepted!

27K views 265 replies 16 participants last post by  carlos puron 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Hi everyone I'm kind of new to this forum I tend to post more at bettafish but I need some advice.

I recently found out that my tap water has nitrite Someone told me to use aquarium salt to help my fish while tank cycles to be able to handle nitrite but I'm afraid that may kill my plants
I have javamoss sunset hygro bacopa amazon sword red root floaters and some others that I just can't remember the names so should I add salt if so how much per gallon?

Thanks for reading
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#55 ·
I'm so sorry sandy I thought I answered your question but I found out that I didn't about ph in my other tanks the three where I have Indian almond leaves are at 6.0 and a 2.5 gal that I have to grow plants with no IAL is at 7.2

The bucket with water stayed at 8.0

My tank test showed the same 6.0 ph .25ppm ammonia 0 nitrite 5.0 nitrate

I'm still adding prime I added the shells to the filter I didn't know if I should crush them or not so I crushed some and throw some others complete
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#57 ·
I haven't seen a Rickey In this thread

About ph the 6.0 is in my betta tanks where I keep IAL tap water comes with about an 8.0 ph I contacted the city trying to figure out the hardness of the water they seem to not have any idea on what I was talking about I told them that my water tests showed the presence of nitrite they just told me to not drink from that water unless I have a carbonated filter

:)
 
#60 · (Edited)
So glad to have fresh, pure, drinkable water coming out of my tap! I could be wrong, but I don't think carbon will remove nitrites. Be sure to treat your water with prime , and I wouldn't drink it- filtered or not. My brother says nitrite can get into tapwater when trees roots infiltrate the supply pipes.
All it takes to cycle a tank is time and patience. I've waited as long as six weeks for a full cycle, so hang in there... your probaly close to the end. Once the bacteria colonies get established they are very efficient at processing ammonia and nitrite. Adding live plants too soon will use up nutrients that could be used to build bacteria colonies.
 
#61 ·
Well I'm being as patient as I can I'm still adding prime and testing water every day today's test stay the same than yesterday I'm still worry About ammonia water change schedule day is next Friday any advice ? Or should I keep the same pattern? 25% water change prime 5x the dose
 
#62 · (Edited)
hopefully your gh/kh test kit will arrive soon.either your water is soft or something else is causing the drop in ph.organic material can cause the drop also.fish waste or dead plant matter could be the culprit.they produce acid.have you been keeping up with gravel vacs? i will pm rickey and see if he can chime in.see if we are missing something.




pm sent.
 
#65 ·
I get to the point of moving decorations To clean underneath
You may not want to get to this point, Carlos! Were it me, I'd treat the surface areas with kid gloves right now to prevent disturbing those baby bacterial colonies. . . just a thought! It is certainly possible to over-clean a tank - especially when it's newly establishing.



Thanks for taking the time, Ricky - and ALL of you who are trying to help our friend Carlos with this! *hugs*
All of your input and time is very much appreciated! ^__^
 
#66 · (Edited)
Excellent advise so far nothing I can really add
Without KH and gH test There is no definite answer. I suspect a low carbonate/bicarbonate level is the answer for low pH. Nitrite (NO2-) forms nitrous acid (HNO2) which is driving the pH. So what do we do at this point, Ideally get rid of the nitrite. The problem become that the low pH tends to limit the very bacteria we are try to grow. So that leaves the short term solution and the long term solution to rise the pH The short terms solution sodium bicarbonate (this will rocket the pH up to its equilibrium point) The long term is calcium carbonate this is slower but much more stable over the long haul. But in any case who have to get the pH up. If it was my aquarium I would dose it sodium bicarbonate but you really need a KH test kit to do this. That leaves adding calcium carbonate in the form of crushed coral, crushed seashells, cuttlebone or dried egg shells.

If I were you I would really start drinking bottled water. The EPA Maximum Contaminant Level (MCL) for nitrite is 1 mg/L or 1 ppm if you have 1 ppm your Water Authority is very near violation.

R
 
#67 ·
Ok not disturb surface got it chesh :)

Rickey I'm just waiting on that test kit :)

And don't worry im not drinking that water I buy bottled water

Thanks guys for all your help I really appreciate all the advice I'm getting from you :)

Pd: I noticed people edit for spelling or grammar I just want to ask you all to excuse my grammar and if at some point what I write looks confusing don't hesitate to ask me what am I trying to say :)
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#69 ·
You're fine, Carlos! As Hal said - you do better than many around here - and English is their native language! lol. No worries. We understand you just fine! <3
Keep up the good work over there! You're doing a great job, getting the BEST advice, and following it. I worry when I see your frustration, I know just how you must feel. This too, soon shall pass - and you better believe we're ALL going to be cheering when those tests read ZERO! PARTY IN THE CHAT ROOM when that day comes! *hugs*

Can't wait for your kH/gH test to arrive! Hopefully that'll help. . .
 
#72 ·
I teach english, its a very difficult language.

I think you have got the idea...to wait till everything is perfect before introducing fish. I'm sure you will give them a great home.

I've heard about the traffic in houston, but anything for our fish right?
 
#75 ·
Ok first and last time buying in Amazon or at least for that seller it didn't arrive so tomorrow after work I'll be on my way to that not so local fish store hoping to find it

Today I did my weekly water change 30% adding prime I tested water before doing it readings stayed the same 6.0 ph .25 Ammonia 0ppm nitrite 5.0 nitrate

So as soon as I get home with that test kit I'll let you know the results hope we can get through this soon

On another hand plants are growing like crazy specially my draft lily I know sometimes I want to quit because of all this problems but when I see my little betta tanks I know I can do it it's just 70 gallons bigger so thank you guys for keep following this and not leave alone I've learn a lot through this forums and its amazing members :)
 
#77 ·
It works that way. The first year or so can be really stressful. I wondered how keepers could think of fishkeeping as a peaceful, stress-relieving activity. Now, three years and more than a few fish later, I see what they mean.

It's actually better than that because, even though there's some stressful moments, there's a feeling of competence, confidence and achievement that goes along with it.
 
#78 ·
Look at it is way, Carlos, you only need to do this once. Then you will always have a source of beneficial bacteria for all your aquariums to come. This is the very reason that many beginners quit the hobby. They never make thru the start up phase. The oldest live creatures in my aquariums are the beneficial bacteria all descendants of the original some 40 year ago.

R
 
#79 ·
Been a couple of pages since I read this.

First Carlos everyone will agree that your english is much better then mine. Afterall, english hasn't been spoken in America for years. :lol:

As I understand it your bucked has little to no circulation and not bioload yet has a pH of 8.0. As opposed to your planted tank with circulation and bioload treated with prime and a very low pH.

KH and Gh are unknown because your LFS didn't have the test kits.

Just some observations which may or may not reflect the totality of your situation.

I find is disappointing that your LFS who sells api ammonia test kit does no also have the api combined kh/gh test kit.

PH is a function of both kH and carbon dioxide. IME carbon dioxide has a much greater effect than KH. I have had both marine and freshwater tank with kH values ranging from 4 degrees to over 20 degrees and the PH is 8.4-8.8 with the api high range test kit. Don't get me wrong kH is important and does seem to help limit the nightly pH drop. But the just before lights out pH values were those high levels even with tanks that had peat moss in the substrate and which originally had pH values of 7 or less. But after things got through the initial cycle the pH would rise to those levels.

I feel your experience is reflecting that fact. The bucket with no circulation and no bioload is probably low in carbon dioxide therefore has a high pH. And the tank with circulation and bioload has a much higher carbon dioxide level. Especially with the prime dosing.

Prime does detox (lock up) ammonia but in the process reduces oxygen levels and lowers pH. Plus the ammonia still test positive with most test kits. The danger is you treat prime to lock ammoina, still test ammonia, add more prime, etc,etc,etc. Meanwhile you reduce more and more oxygen in the tank.

With the plants thriving I would recommend you stop water changes and stop treating with prime so the plants will be more effective. I feel if you do that any remaining trace of ammonia will drop to 0 and pH will rise as carbon dioxide is consumed by the plants.

And of course you should only measure pH just before lights out. If pH is high at that time, it reflects that the tank (plants) is fully consuming the carbon dioxide being produced by the fish.


At that point the fish should be extremely healthy in the low co2 environment and the plants thriving also.

And they will just basically take care of each other.

still just my .02
 
#81 ·
Thank you for following and for your input at least I know that my English have improved :) For the record the fresh water master test kit was bought on eBay my LFS is really poor on those kind of supplies sometimes even prime is out I have to go with half bottle left in case they don't have any I'm adding the prime cause I'm really afraid of losing my fish I don't have a provisional set up for the ones that still in there otherwise I would get them out and start all over again I didn't know that prime "side effect" would affect ph and actually now that you mentioned it's been going down it wasn't like that at the beginning on the other hand I do my water testing before lighting goes off and those are my results
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#82 ·
as I remember the api master test kit does not include the kh/gh test kits.

sometimes when people recommend 'standard and accepted' prcedures the side effects are blamed on something else. Just the way things are.

my .02
 
#83 ·
standard & accepted practices are good at standardizing things

no one will have any exceptional results
any issues that do arise will fall between standard and accepted issues on the problem
resolving any problems then involve standardized procedures to correct the issue

then there are those who do things a little (or a lot) differently.

i'm not entirely in agreement with beaslebob's promotion of things, but that's a personal issue, no basis on facts of any kind, ... regardless, beaslebob still has an amazingly simple way of doing things that goes against the standard & accepted ways of doing things, and getting plenty of success

i'm following the same route in some regards, ... and others i seem to be moving even closer too.

there is good and bad with standards
good, problems are easy to identify & easy to fix

the bad, if anything else is going on other than 'typical' then no one knows what is going on, no one knows much, nor has anyone ever bothered to consider "what if?" learning & understanding stops and so do improvements.

beaslebob is right, water changes can be detrimental.
an established tank, if left alone, can develop the exact right conditions to be near maintenance free, a hardness in the water to resist sudden changes, a stable and strong bacterial culture to keep maintaining things.

water changes reduce these buffers
now not to go gung-ho and refuse water changes, but know what your doing,

now that's what this thread has been about, to learn what is going on, what to expect, what to look for.

tests, test kits, testing, ... they'll tell you what's going on, but not what to do about it.

they'll let you know if things are higher or lower than what you want (for whatever reason, whatever you may want), ... but what to do about it, ... well you can't do anything about it, ... once the tank is set, the tank tries to keep everything at that level, it will fight you (and often win)

the only thing you can do is fight with a bigger weapon, ... and then you've gotta worry "how is this going to affect the chemistry of the tank"

test kits will only tell you what is going on, it will not tell you what to do, and what you do will in turn affect the tank in other ways very likely.

i've got a pH test kit
i've got pH 7.0 buffer
i've got an ammonia test kit (i could throw this out - if not for a remineralizing plant clippings from the tank - worried about as the plants break down a rise in ammonia, so far that's never happened)

a tank will try to stableize itself.
now if it stableizes the way you want, or the way it wants, well the tank wins, or you have to do a lot of maintenance that might cause more stress on the inhabitants in your tank than you wish, ... and once your your back to "leave the tank to maintain itself"

learn,

doing things the standard way, it's good to start, but don't stay there or when there's problems everything will fall apart and you'll be scratching your head wondering what happened., and no one will have any answers for you.
 
#84 ·
I'd like to ask again that you refrain from derailing/over complicating this thread any more than it has to be.
The OP is in the midst of a tricky situation, adding to the confusion is not helping him or his fish.

There are many opinions and thoughts on what the "right" way to keep fish is. Feel free to start a thread for discussion on this subject, or any other that is NOT directly answering a question from Carlos in the appropriate area of the forum, or on this thread in our advanced discussions area.

Thanks for understanding - and to everyone for helping Carlos in dealing with his dilemma!




Carlos,

. . . I'm very interested to learn the results you get from the tests. I've never understood why these are not a part of API's Master kit - they provide very important information! I'm glad that you were willing to check into these - I'm hoping that things will become much clearer once we have a better idea of the water hardness. Please keep us posted!
 
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