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Becoming - 55 gallon tank upgrade

This is a discussion on Becoming - 55 gallon tank upgrade within the Freshwater Journals forums, part of the Aquarium Photography category; --> Eyedropper maybe? Even if one or two of the good ones got destroyed, keeping all of them from going off would be worth it. ...

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Becoming - 55 gallon tank upgrade
Old 02-14-2013, 06:35 PM   #421
 
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Eyedropper maybe?
Even if one or two of the good ones got destroyed, keeping all of them from going off would be worth it.

Do B.Rams freak out and eat the eggs if they feel the eggs are threatened?
I've heard of this happening with some fish.
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Old 02-14-2013, 06:53 PM   #422
 
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I'm afraid they will do exactly that if I mess with the nest. . . and being cichlids, momma is on the ball - she's fanning those eggs for all she's worth, the reason is to keep any fungus from getting to the eggs. They look fine now, I think I'm just being paranoid, but there *might* be the tiniest bit of something starting to form. Big maybe tho. . . The eggs should be hatching in another day or two. . . I'm half-inclined to just let things be this first time and let nature take it's course - if it ain't broke, don't fix it - but at the same time, I don't want my inaction to condemn them. ESPECIALLY now that I can SEE BABIES in those eggs. Flip side is I don't want my action to have the same consequence. Ahhhh, so indecisive! I think I'll just leave them. Thanks Ogre, lol! I'm weird, but that actually helped *giggle*
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:02 PM   #423
 
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Mm, if the parents are doing this well, I think you can chill out. =p I am sure some of the babies might not make it, it always happens as is, but it sounds like the parents have it covered. If I recall correctly, the parents also continue guarding the babies and take them out with an escort to eat, and then back to the nest again. One parent takes them around, the other should guard so the one with the babies doesn't have to leave them to chase off intruders. If you're worried too much though, you COULD put up a blocker, make something like a circle around a large area...inconvenient for space with the other fish, but only for a short time.

I'd be nerve-wracked too though, but I think I'd let it be, possibly move other fish out of the tank that are the most problematic...but that's harder when you have a lot more fish. lol

And if somethings like a fungus hits any of the eggs, those eggs are already dead and mom should take care of it before it spreads.
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:17 PM   #424
 
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You're right, Sylver - I just have this problem of over-analyzing everything, lol! Pretty sure I'll leave them be. There isn't any way in this tank for me to do anything that would in any way block them, and the idea of catching and moving the loaches is laughable. You know perfectly well how difficult catching loaches is - and you've SEEN my tank. *shakes head* Don't see that happening any time soon. No. . . I'm just going to wait it out and see what happens, I think. Fry born in a community tank rarely make it to adulthood, IF we get that far, which I'm trying NOT to get my hopes up about, I *may* siphon out a free-swimming fry or two and move them into the QT tank, leaving the rest with mom and pa to strengthen their bond (rams often mate for life - awesome!) I was NOT expecting this at all. . . but I really WOULD like to try to raise a brood of these guys. Bolivians are my passion. . . so I think that, perhaps. . .when this drama has unfolded fully, and I move the dwarf loaches into their new home, I may move mom and pop into the 10g, to be alone and see if they do it again - and just go from there.

GAH! This is just too AMAZING to watch! I'm just way to excited about this. I've spent every possible minute in front of that tank over the last few days. . . so cool!
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:26 PM   #425
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chesherca View Post
You're right, Sylver - I just have this problem of over-analyzing everything, lol! Pretty sure I'll leave them be. There isn't any way in this tank for me to do anything that would in any way block them, and the idea of catching and moving the loaches is laughable. You know perfectly well how difficult catching loaches is - and you've SEEN my tank. *shakes head*
Darn right I know how hard it is to catch them. LOL I think I should get a medal for catching like sixty of them more than once. >_>;

And yes, it's hard not to over-analyze things, especially when it comes to babies or harder to breed fish, pretty fish...or just babies. lol You worry about everything to the point you think the plants are now the enemy, gonna go Harry Potter Womping Willow and eat everything that slips by!
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Old 02-14-2013, 08:04 PM   #426
 
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I would leave things alone. The parents will deal with infertile eggs, etc. You only real worry is other fish getting them (eggs or later fry) especially during the night. Catfish and similar nocturnal fish are the real threat, as the parents "sleep" during the night.

To the questions in your PM. If they spawned once, they will repeat spawn, so a loss this time will only mean another spawning in a few weeks. If you have nocturnal fish and want to save fry, I would move the parents to their own tank after this spawn [assuming this one doesn't survive, it very well could survive]. They are generally good parents, not prone to eating the eggs/fry like angelfish can be.

If the fry appear, they need food. Some they will get in a planted tank, but not sufficient. Artemia (newly hatched brine shrimp) is one. There is fry food and infusoria. Dried leaves (oak, beech, almond) will produce infusoria. And you can powder some flake food, mix it with tank water, and using a pipette squirt it into the shoal periodically.

Byron.
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Old 02-14-2013, 08:25 PM   #427
 
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Byron, thank you SO much for your input! I actually have some Indian Almond leaves on-hand, so I'll start there. I've never used them, actually I've been waiting to try out the blackwater thing until I put the dwarf loaches into the tank, so to keep parameters the same between the QT tank and this one, but now's a REALLY good time to change plans, I think :) The leaves I have are Grade A size small (look huge to me!) - how many would you suggest I put in? Do you think it would unnerve the parents if I put them in close to the nest at this point?

I'll give hatching Brine a try again, if we get that far, and I have Hakari First Bites on hand - do you think that food is small enough for them? Or should I stick with ground flake in addition to the leaves? Hopefully I'll have better luck with the Brine this time around, too - so all my bases can be covered.

I do have nocturnal fish - the Kuhli loaches. So far, the eggs haven't diminished, but I suspect once they become wigglers, they'll be seen as a tasty snack, so we'll have to wait and see what happens. . . if this brood doesn't get off the ground, so to speak, I have a 10g planted QT tank that is set up (with the dwarf loaches in residence, but they're ready to go on to the 55). Would my BR pair have enough room in there, or would I be best off to move the setup (along with the bacteria) into my 20 long, even though the planting would be less dense?

One last question - regarding water changes. I'm due for a water change this weekend. I know how important water quality is - especially with babies, but I'm afraid (again) to disturb the parents. I usually do around a 50% water change every week in this tank, and siphon the sand. Would a normal water change bother things, or should I change my routine in this case?

Thanks again for chiming in - your experienced advice and time are always valued!
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Old 02-14-2013, 09:01 PM   #428
 
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If it were me, I'd be scared to do more than the normal 25-30% changes(in my nursery I take half a pitcher of water out and replace it daily and do weekly 25% changes with a quarter of the tank vacuum in the places most of the uneaten food accumulates). But as you know, my expertise(if you can call it that), lies mostly with livebearers. lol You could leave the center where they are alone and do the syphoning around the outer edges, and the pour the new water in REALLY carefully. That's what I do with my fry tanks, it takes about an hour+ to do it, I'm afraid I'll pour it too hard and slam them into the glass. lol
The other thing is, the parents are probably used to your schedule, so you could probably continue as normal, just a little differently cleaning wise than usual, it'll most likely stress them out less than you think if you stick to your cleaning routine that they know. lol Someone more experienced with Rams may know different though.

As for feeding, I've found daphnia to be a good way to get enough in for all the babies, older and newer alike. It spreads out pretty good, it's small enough for my newborn guppies who love the stuff, so I imagine it'd be ok for your babies as well. Only problem is, it spreads out a good bit, so even if the fish go into a feeding frenzy, a lot gets to the bottom for the youngins that aren't ready for the top yet. This also means it gets in the ground easier and spread about leaving food waste, so if the babies don't eat much of it, it is a pain to clean. But so is most smaller foods. But this means they will have some food. Basically really small foods, or really finely crushed up stuff. Unlike baby brine shrimp(which also makes a bit of a mess too. lol), the daphnia really does go everywhere, but they really go for that stuff. I get that frozen hikari stuff for them. My babies are growing like weeds, as you know. LOL
I have a little cupboard for my baby fish foods, it's become a habit of mine to mush up stuff into dust for them and set what I can aside for the 3-4 daily feedings. ^^; And people call me OCD, I deny it fully! >_)>;;

Last edited by Sylverclaws; 02-14-2013 at 09:04 PM..
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Old 02-14-2013, 09:15 PM   #429
 
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Thanks for your input, Sylver!

Over the last 9 months + with my little shoal of Rams, we've come to know each-other pretty well. They ARE very much all about their routine (though I haven't noticed that they've minded when I'm a day or two off on my water change - it's more like lighting, feeding routines - and actually, HOUSEHOLD routines. They get upset if my home schedule is off, or if there are a lot of strangers around. So cute how they pay such close attention to our world) and aren't in the slightest bit upset by my hands in the tank - well, you've seen the hand-feeding video, so you know. But I DO NOT have any experience with them breeding - this is all new to me. :)

50% water changes ARE routine for me, so them, and most of the stuff that I siphon out IS near the edges, so yeah. That. I actually don't pour my water into the tank, I have a canister filter and take the intake out of the tank, put it in the bucket, and let it do the work for me, so none of my plants get disturbed - so that isn't an issue, either.

I'm just being a FUSSY grandmom! I don't want to do anything wrong, and I've never done this before! I've read everything I can find, but. . . there isn't anything like experience, y'know?

I've bred livebearers, too - livebearer fry, as TINY as they seem, are HUGE compared to hatchlings. Daphnia, from what I've read (could be wrong) will actually be too big for them for their first few weeks of life. We're talkin' TINY! My Dwarf loaches and Tetra really love the stuff, though :)
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Old 02-15-2013, 11:02 AM   #430
 
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I would continue to do normal water changes (volume) but limit it to just changing the water. I never go over the substrate in some of my tanks anyway, so just stick the tube in, draw out the water, and replace with dechlorinated fresh water. This is a minimal disturbance.

For the future, to remove the pair prior to spawning, I would use the 20g Long. I don't know what your pair are like; with mine, the female when guarding the eggs did not want the male anywhere close. When the fry were free swimming, he was close by guarding them.

Someone mentioned daphnia, that's an excellent food.

Byron.
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