Becoming - 55 gallon tank upgrade - Page 27 - Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources
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post #261 of 828 Old 11-28-2012, 11:42 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input, Sylver! One of them IS black! Well, he's kind of coffee-colored right now, but the coloration of the Pangio oblonga can be varied into adulthood, anyway. They don't all get as dark, some stay lighter. The two species reach pretty much the same size at full growth, so I'll just *assume* that they're ALL between 1.5 - 3 months old. Sounds good to me! I'm not really worried about parameters, despite the small tank size, I know how to keep things clean and safe - plus I have plants in there helping out, so I guess I'll just leave them in for now, I can always move them if I should see anything of concern. They'll be in QT for somewhere between 6 - 8 weeks, I think. Especially since they came from a questionable shop. . . one of them has some redness on his belly that is concerning me, I'm hoping that a week or so in clean water will see him right again - it seems to be internal, but he's very active, not shy, and eating well. . . so I'm hoping he didn't get squished by that awful woman. Time will tell. I can't wait to see what they think of the 55 gallon tank - and what the big loaches think about the miniscule new additions! QT time takes so much patience, but I know how important it is, so for now, I get to enjoy them on their own for a bit!
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Last edited by Chesh; 11-28-2012 at 11:45 AM.
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post #262 of 828 Old 11-28-2012, 08:57 PM
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The 10 would be the best option. Although a 20 is quite large and you will need to use more medication.

If you can't wait for the 10, go with the 20 ;)
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post #263 of 828 Old 11-29-2012, 08:45 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks, Termie! I know you're right. . . they're just so SMALL for the 20L OR the 29, lol - same length, though I'm pretty sure they'll have a blast in there. I've been doing water tests on the 3g daily, and so far everything is stable - no toxins, so it seems that they have enough dilution and planting to cover their tiny bioload - it's really just an issue of room, and since they're so active (#5 finally decided to join in the revelry yesterday!), I really want to give them more room to stretch out. Fine is just not good enough, lol...

I have a plan, though. . .

My cousin has a pair of angels who have started breeding, and have gotten aggressive toward the other members of his community tank. All he has is a 10g tank, which he moved the angels into to keep the rest of his group safe - but that is REALLY not big enough for them. . . so I've decided to do a swap with him. I *should* send him my 29 for the angels, I know, but I don't want to give it up, because I'll need it when the Platy from the Kindergarten come home for the summer. . . still, a 20 long is twice as good as a 10g, even if it doesn't have the height his angels need. . . for a temporary fix, its way better than what he has.

Anyway, I've been working on clearing the 20L of the plants all week. I'll be setting it up at his house this weekend, and taking HIS 10g. . . I need an 'extra' 10g for QT/hospital, anyway, and since I keep smaller fish 10g is ideal for my purposes. Actually BUYING a 10g is silly, when I have so many tanks laying around, but my 10g is occupied by a frog for the foreseeable future, and I don't want to displace him, too (even though I *could* get away with putting him into the 3g, lol)! I think this is the perfect solution, and the new loaches will have gotten an entire week in the small tank, so they shouldn't be too stressed out by the quick move into the bigger tank.

On a darker note. . . one of my loaches has a very red underbelly. This is a shot taken the day they came home - it's a profile shot, but you can see what I'm talking about, and it extends all of the way around - his chest is very red:

I'm going to try to get a comp shot today to see if it's gotten any better - it doesn't seem to be WORSE, so that's good, at least. He's too small and too quick to really be able to tell without taking a still picture, but I know he's still very red. Poor guy was probably squashed by that evil woman and her net.

He seems just as happy as can be, swimming and playing with the others, eating well - in fact, he was the first to lose his shyness and come out of hiding, and always the first one grubbing around at feeding time. I hope he is able to heal up fully with clean water and good care. . .

Last edited by Chesh; 11-29-2012 at 08:53 AM.
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post #264 of 828 Old 11-29-2012, 09:50 AM
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I've never seen the like, if that's an's one heck of a bruise! Sometimes they get some odd red natural coloring that doesn't fit with them though. Are you positive it's an injury? One of my loaches had a dark red stripe down her belly from her chin as well, and it's hard to say if it looks the same since she's naturally a darker color. lol
Because if it is an injury, it looks like he was smashed, and none too gently either. Did you say the lady at the shop was rough with them? Because if she caused it, it would have to be a rather forceful smash, they aren't THAT delicate that a little accidental mush would do such a thing.
I hope he continues to be alright, if it's an injury and he is all happy and acting like he should, it may just be a bad bruise over internal injuries. Were that internal, I think he would be very dead.

I initially got the one loach, right? And then three more. The lady that got them for me was good, but then I went to get five more to complete my group and the woman there this time was practically slapping them with the net and jamming it behind the rocks...I told her if she injures/kills the loaches, she's going to be reported, they take patience to catch, and lot's of it. She almost fell off her ladder, I think she forgot I was there in her stupidity.
Iiii hate those people. Oi. v.v;

Well, bruise, odd mark or no, he's a pretty thing. =)
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Last edited by Sylverclaws; 11-29-2012 at 09:53 AM.
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post #265 of 828 Old 11-29-2012, 10:21 AM Thread Starter
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Oooh, yes - she was a beast. She was basically trying to beat them out of the substrate (which was gravel) with a net. That's why I ended up with 2 extra - she knew she had hurt one of them. I did tell her to stop it, because she would hurt them - and then she started just scooping out net-fulls of gravel, but that's not *too* much better. :/

The smooshed one died the first night. But, this guy is very lively, and sure isn't acting hurt. I know that my larger loaches have pretty pink 'cheeks,' and I can see a bit of pink on the undersides of the other babies - I assume it has to do with them being so small and having such transparent skin still, but this one is the only one that has so much - and so VIBRANT of the coloration. . . the others look normal enough. You're right - it would be a 'heck of a bruise,' and with an injury that big on a fish so small, I'd think he'd have died, or at least slowed down, by now. . . I've never seen anything like it, either - but I've also only had my own loaches and pictures online to compare. Just hoping it isn't some sort of an infection or internal injury that will slowly kill him. . . it's definitely on the inside. I can't help but worry over them! Hopefully I manage to get a good picture today, and it shows that he's healing!
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post #266 of 828 Old 11-30-2012, 09:20 AM Thread Starter
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I've been really worried about the new tiny loach with the very bright and swollen tummy. . . and, as I do when worried about my finned friends, have been cruising the internet ceaselessly in search of anything that can help me. . .I found something pretty interesting!!!

I've come to the conclusion that these new little loaches are NOT Pangio Kuhli at all! Based on their markings, which on ALL of them do not extend below their lateral line and are very consistent, the *slight* pinkishness on all of their tummies and lighter orange/yellow coloration (which I thought might have been due to their age), AND their diminutive size - I think that what I have here are Pango cuneovirgata!

The P.Kuhli that I have in the main tank have fairly random markings - which do extend all of the way down to their tummies, much brighter orange coloration, and very pale bellies.

If I'm right (and I do think I am), then these loaches may not be babies at all! The MAX size for P. cuneovirgata is only 2" - they're dwarf loaches! So while they probably still have a little bit of growing to do, they're likely to be sub-adults, which does make me feel a bit better.
With the dwarf Tetra and the Dwarf Cichlids, my 55g tank is quickly turning into a community of Dwarf fishies!

So, back to Little Miss Strawberry and her bright and fat tummy, I managed to get a few pictures of her last night at feeding time. . .

A quick Google image search on the speceis (P. cuneovirgata) shows several images of loaches with similarly bright coloration. I'm a bit more hopeful now that it may just be a normal variation for this species... and... do you see how bumpy she looks? I'm wondering if she may be filled with roe? Has anyone ever seen loaches looking like this before they release their eggs? I'm hoping that it's as simple as that, and nothing to be overly concerned about - and also that she does release them, as I've read that it's possible for loaches to become egg-bound in tanks, since many loaches don't seem to be very happy to breed in captivity - for the most part.

It's such a bright red... and her abdomen seems to be very swollen compared to the others. See where the swelling ends abruptly just beyond her dorsal fin? In the picture below you can see two of the other little ones. The pink coloration really varies among them, but none of the others is nearly as RED as she is, and they're not swollen, either. . . also, the pink area ends in a smooth, clean line - where Strawberry's is very lumpy and uneven. . . if anyone has any suggestions on what this could be, I'd love to hear them! She's still behaving very much like the others,is very active and eating well. I'm confused!

Of course that still leaves one lonely little un-banded friend. . . pictured below with Strawberry. . . I couldn't find anything to suggest that P. cuneovirgata ever shows up with no yellow/orange or stripes at all, so my guess is still that he is a very young Pangio oblonga. He seems happy enough with his buddies for now, though, and as he settles in he is turning a very pretty gunmetal silver color, which I'm in love with!

So there you go! Loachling update for the day! Plans for this weekend include DE-planting the 20 gallon to send over to my cousin - I've already started transferring plants into the 55 and the 29g tank from this grow-out tank (the 55 is already back to looking lush - hope not to get any melt this time, despite the lighting being a bit dim), and hopefully by Sunday the loaches will be all settled into a much larger, but still small, 10g tank for the remainder of their QT!

Last edited by Chesh; 11-30-2012 at 09:25 AM.
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post #267 of 828 Old 11-30-2012, 11:46 AM
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Those are beautiful little fish, the 3rd picture with the 2 facing each other is lovely.
It's a little jaw dropping when you realize that they're on sand, not small gravel.
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post #268 of 828 Old 11-30-2012, 12:18 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks! I agree. It's really hard to show the scale of these guys, as their tiny tank is set up for them to be in it, but I always notice how coarse the sand is when I look at the pics, too. The lighter stuff is pool filter sand, it's very soft and fluffy, but it has the black Tahitian Moon Sand mixed in (pulled from my main tank to get some extra bacteria into the tank). Loaches have very sensitive tummies, and are best kept over sand so their delicate skin isn't harmed. . . the Kuhli are okay with the slightly coarser TMS in the 55g - I'm really hoping that it isn't a problem for the cuneovirgatas. . .They're only about an inch long right now - but SO adorable! , andI'm officially in love!
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post #269 of 828 Old 11-30-2012, 01:12 PM
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Identifying Pangio loaches down the species can be and is rather difficult. Often times there are more than two or three species in a collection. And to add to the confusion you may not even have P. kuhlii! It's most likely P. semicincta because the actual P. kuhlii is rarely ever collected. Funny little things those Pangio loaches are!
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post #270 of 828 Old 11-30-2012, 01:30 PM Thread Starter
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You're absolutley right, Izzy. TRUE P. kuhlii only live in Borneo (possibly only found on the isle of Java) from what I understand, while the P. semicincta can be found all over the Malaysian Peninsula and Sumatra, and, of course, Borneo. It is so difficult to tell the two apart that there is some speculation on if they actually are different species, or just variations of the same genetics. I'd love to see a study done on that one :)

Since so many of our fish are farmed in Malaysia, it's a pretty fair bet that NOBODY actually has true P.Kuhli, and we all have P. semicincta. . .

Except that it sure does LOOK like I now also have P. cuneovirgata, lol! Time will tell on that one. If they stay bitty, then we'll have our proof! :D

With the internet being what it is, it's tough to tell what's true when you read it, and to be honest - I really don't CARE what they are! They're squirmy and stripey and wonderful little fishies - the bigger ones as well as the new arrivals. I just want to keep 'em healthy and happy!
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