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Adventures of the 35G

This is a discussion on Adventures of the 35G within the Freshwater Journals forums, part of the Aquarium Photography category; --> Originally Posted by jentralala JDM, what were yours marked as? I wish I could get a good picture of mine, they have a lot ...

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Adventures of the 35G
Old 04-12-2013, 03:53 PM   #371
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JDM, what were yours marked as? I wish I could get a good picture of mine, they have a lot more 'clear' areas, with their backs looking like your guys' tummy.

And great photo by your daughter! I'm jealous, she's a better photographer than I am!

Perlumia, I was worried about it too but the #1 rule that I read was to check it every single day, and pick out the largest ones for feeding. I'm still working out how to catch them (today I used a turkey baster and sucked a few up and then strained them through a brine shrimp net, and then put the larvae in a bowl of tank water as I caught the rest of their brethren). It's also very difficult for a larvae to reach maturity in a tank with fish, as they'll hunt them down pretty quick.

I was nervous about accidentally 'breeding' mosquitoes, but I read an article somewhere that eased my mind a bit. It was stated that if you keep the rest of your yard clear of standing water, and provide a good place for them to lay their eggs (standing green water is supposed to be optimum), that you are in a sense controlling the population, as long as you cull the larvae. You're providing an optimum place for them to breed, so they don't need to search for anywhere else, and as long as you cull the larvae you'll be cutting down the population.

So far the only hints I have are that they are TINY, so a pipette would probably work a lot better than a turkey baster. I also recommend an opaque container, as it makes them easier to see against a 'background'. (I had both clear and opaque containers set up, and the clear one was much more difficult to spot the larvae. I ended up dumping it.)
They used to include little pipettes in the testing kits.

That shot is with my phone camera... actually all of my shots are with my camera, while great for outdoors sucks in the aquarium due to the autofocus. Using the manual focus sucks BIG TIME. Particularly with fish.

Jeff.
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Old 04-21-2013, 12:13 AM   #372
 
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So, on the 2nd of May it will be a month that the ten rasbora have been in QT. I have seen no sign of illness, and they have steadily been getting more and more accustomed to life here. Do you think it would be safe to add them to the main tank on the 2nd? Or should I wait another month? And when they get added to the main tank, should I do it all at one time or a few at a time?

Also, I am so angry. The crypts that I bought are melting like crazy (I have to suck up mush every day), which fine, whatever. I expected it.

But now. NOW they giant fiasco melt (which thank the lord is in the QT tank, I would break down and cry if it was the main) has caused my large lovely gorgeous 100% aquatic wendtii to start melting :( It's gotten huge in that tank and had sent off a baby even, and it's melting now. I'm just jigiugU%*UGhvygcjbYR&^. UGH. I don't want to be in this club! It SUCKS!

On the bright side, one of my cherry shrimp looks to be pregnant. I just adore them so much. I'm thinking of ordering a few pumpkins and yellows, and maybe in a few years I'll have some cool brown shrimpies :)
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Old 04-21-2013, 08:08 AM   #373
 
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The crypt melt club is the worst club ever. . . *hugs* Just be patient, resist the urge to mess with or move them, and keep cleaning up after their messes - the Wendtii is older, and better established - it should bounce back quickly. I'm not sure if Crypt rot spreads, as such - but seemingly subtle changes in environment can easily trigger it (or not, crypts are cryptic!). I've noted crypts melting due to water chemistry shifts after stock has been added on a couple of threads recently. Seems that the shift in nitrate levels can cause crypt melt fairly easily, not to mention the increase in ammonia that will come along with increased stocking while the bacterial colonies are adjusting (unmeasurable, but there) I'm REALLY happy to see you QTing your new plants, but suggest that a QT tank might not be the best place to keep crypts after their initial QT period. They do best in tanks that are established and stable, and a QT tank by nature is a shifty kind of thing. Plus? They're gorgeous and belong in a show tank!

HUZZAH on healthy, happy little Rassies! *dances* I'd say to give them at least 2 more weeks. *GAH! MORE PATIENCE!!!* I upped my QT minimum to 6 weeks when a fish that I had in QT suddenly started showing signs of a parasitic infection ONE day before the four week mark. I couldn't save her, but get shivers thinking of what might have happened if I had put her into Becoming.

SHRIMP!!! *SQUEEEEEEE* I'm so jealous of your shrimp. I want them!!! Fingers crossed for some lil' berry babies heading your way soon!!!

ETA: You should be able to add the new fish all at once, just be mindful of your bacteria - it never hurts to move some established media back into the main tank at the same time to cushion things a bit . . .juuuuust in case!

Last edited by Chesh; 04-21-2013 at 08:12 AM..
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Old 04-21-2013, 04:51 PM   #374
 
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Yeah, I made sure to keep the new plants out of the main tank, mostly because I new they were gonna melt like crazy transitioning over from submerged to fully aquatic. They look so sad :( It makes me sad.

I have the large wendtii in there as I hoped it would be a good cover plant (and maybe also because it has great leaves for spawning)...heh. It was moved over a day before the Rasboras were introduced, and has just now started to melt. I think it's because of everything else melting :/ It's a lot easier to clean up after them in the shallow QT though, thank goodness.

After these guys move on to the main tank then it's time to get some more loaches and I should be done, unless I want a few more rasbora.

If I end up having a successful shrimp colony I'll send you a few if you decide you want to give them a try :)
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Old 04-21-2013, 05:05 PM   #375
 
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YAY, SHRIMP!!! I'm watching Izzy's babies, too. They're just so neat! Also very excited for you to get some more squirmy loach butts. Of course, of course. ^.^ *luffs loachlings*

Interesting about the Wendtii. . . Why do you think that the other crypts melting would have caused it to melt, too? Decaying plant matter contributing to ammonia and ultimately nitrates? I'll admit that I somewhat suspect that Crypts have a diabolical plot to frustrate fish-keepers everywhere with their phoenix trick, but. . . it can't be that simple! Have you been testing/tracking levels in the tank since the Rasbora were introduced? Naughty crypts *grumbles* Why can't they just BE pretty?

On Crypts, the lil' babies you sent are starting to grow :) The stems are actually growing now, too! The lilly exists, not much going on there, lol, but it hasn't died, either!
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Old 04-21-2013, 06:14 PM   #376
 
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It might be, I haven't really tested for nitrates because I'm so lazy and I hate shaking that bottle -____- I'll check tonight though and see if mine are any higher than the normal 10.

I've never had a crypt melt before, and while I was sad about the newbies melting I knew it would happen. But I'm so upset over the big guy losing some leaves, such a bummer.

I'll probably have to special order the loaches in, which I'm not looking forward to. IF last time it was a pathogen that killed my rassies, what's to stop it from happening again? Even if they are QT'd that's not going to kill any disease, is it? Should I automatically feed them medicated food since they're wild caught? :( Not looking forward to dealing with this.

Yay! I'm glad it's doing well, those Lucens are now my favorite. They're just so darn cute.

Speaking of Lilies! I was cleaning up the taddie tank a few days ago (they got moved into the pond out front, which I moved the lillies into as well), and I found that one of the flower clusters had broken off a stem and turned into (gasp) those banana roots!! They're shot off little tiny stems and pads of their own, it's the weirdest thing. It's floating in my tank now, I'm waiting to see what it wants to do. I'll snap a few pics soon.
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Old 04-21-2013, 06:53 PM   #377
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The QT lets you observe the fish for signs of disease/parasites and I am sure that the idea is that if the fish are still alive two months later they probably don't have anything.

I hear this bit about crypts melting... I know that I can expect original leaves to melt, my swords did that but over the course of two months and while new leaves emerged, but I've yet to see any problem with my crypts.... I've quite a few species added at different times in two different tanks now and I wasn't particularly careful about them... and they've been moved, some more than once. Is this specifically an environmental issue or some sort of actual plant pathogen?

All my plants have come from the same source, I was careful to select healthy looking specimens, maybe that makes a difference?

Jeff.
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Old 04-21-2013, 11:56 PM   #378
 
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I've purchased several different crypts from different stores, and never once had a problem, even in the main tank when I had 4 swords adjusting to being aquatic. I've moved them all around the tank and have even left them floating for periods of time.

This is my first crypt melt, and although I was expecting die-off from them being submerged grown, I wasn't expecting it to be so...dramatic. It's been a snowball effect. First, I lost a few leaves here and there on the newbies, every few days. Then I was losing several leaves a day. Then I lost an entire plant. Then my old established crypt started melting. I've no idea why, or what triggers it. It's really really really frustrating though.

I wish it could be pinpointed and something done to counter-act it, but all I can do is just suck up the mush.

The only bonus is that I suppose due to the excess nutrients, the swords in that tank have exploded with growth. And the anacharis/duckweed are starting to create some thick mats on the surface.

Oh, and JDM, do you remember when I had that huge rasbora die off? We've come to believe that it was caused from a wild pathogen being introduced to the tank from the new wild-caught loaches, something the tank-bred fish had never encountered, but something that wouldn't bother the loaches themselves.

If that was the case, would the pathogen eventually die in a sterile aquarium? Or would I have to 'kill' it myself? Is there any way to know if it's there? I would be really upset if I put loaches through an 8 week QT, introduced them to the tank, and had the rasboras die due to some un-encountered germs.
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Old 04-22-2013, 05:42 AM   #379
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Oh, and JDM, do you remember when I had that huge rasbora die off? We've come to believe that it was caused from a wild pathogen being introduced to the tank from the new wild-caught loaches, something the tank-bred fish had never encountered, but something that wouldn't bother the loaches themselves.

If that was the case, would the pathogen eventually die in a sterile aquarium? Or would I have to 'kill' it myself? Is there any way to know if it's there? I would be really upset if I put loaches through an 8 week QT, introduced them to the tank, and had the rasboras die due to some un-encountered germs.
I guess it really depends on what it was with the loaches but I would imagine there are nasties that just live with the fish in the wild all the time. It's hard to treat something that you don't know what it is and don't know if its even there. A two week hot water period during the QT might kill off a good load of things without having to actually introduce chemicals, then a low level antibiotic if you are still concerned perhaps.

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Old 04-22-2013, 01:46 PM   #380
 
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Oh, and JDM, do you remember when I had that huge rasbora die off? We've come to believe that it was caused from a wild pathogen being introduced to the tank from the new wild-caught loaches, something the tank-bred fish had never encountered, but something that wouldn't bother the loaches themselves.

If that was the case, would the pathogen eventually die in a sterile aquarium? Or would I have to 'kill' it myself? Is there any way to know if it's there? I would be really upset if I put loaches through an 8 week QT, introduced them to the tank, and had the rasboras die due to some un-encountered germs.
This question was totally not directed to me, (probably with good reason, lol) but you KNOW how fascinated (freaked out) I am by fish illness, medicating, and QT. And I'm feeling booky today. . . you always insist that you don't mind my books. . .(your mistake)

*throws book at Jen*

In *most* cases, from what I understand, pathogens that affect fish can't survive for longer than a month or so without the fish they need to thrive. This isn't the case with everything, but typically. . . that's why I QT my plants in an environment WITHOUT fish for at least a month to ensure (to the best of my ability without chemical involvement) that they won't transfer anything into my main tank from wherever they lived before. The same would apply to a QT tank. After about a month of being fish free, and with nothing new introduced to the system, it *should* be considered more or less 'clean' from any fish-related illnesses.

Its impossible to know if whatever it was is still present in your main tank, there are surviving fish that live there still. Without a clue as to what it was, it's fairly impossible to treat - there are so many different bacterial, fungal, viral, and parasitic possibilities - the only way to be 100% POSITIVE would be to break down the tank, sterilize everything, kill the fish, and start from scratch (hoping that it doesn't come in on the next batch). This isn't going to happen, obviously. . .and there is still the chance that it was an environmental issue (pollutant?) that was brought into the tank, and that you were able to remove via the millions of water changes that you did. . .

Situations like yours cause fishkeeping paranoia. . . but it's important to remember that fish aren't sterile, ever. They carry any number of uggies around with them, and provided they are kept in a clean and stress-free environment, their immune systems will typically take care of the rest, and they will remain visibly unaffected and healthy for what is often a normal lifespan. It is typically when a fish is put under a lot of stress that they become less able to fight off infection (just like people!), and the illness gets the upper hand. This *can* lead to a snowball effect in the tank, but provided that the water is clean, and the other fish stress-free - things don't *usually* go that way in an established tank.

What you're doing by keeping your new fish in QT isn't *exactly* just making sure that they don't have any pathogens - we know they do. Rather, you're making sure that they don't have any of the easily transmittable nasties that can take out a tank in a heartbeat, and that can't be lived with - these will typically manifest within the QT period (6 weeks). Otherwise you're giving them an area away from the others to settle in, destress from all the rapid changes, fully acclimate to the conditions of your water, and become comfortable with how you run your tank. Since they're typically species-only at this point, you're also eliminating the stress of learning where they fit into an existing community. The idea is that these fish have just been popped into the nicest vacation resort that they've ever seen, with their favorite 'people' as the only other guests, and are given time to thoroughly rest, relax, and recover. A happy fish will typically have an immune system strong enough to be able to combat any harbored sickness, and in many cases eliminate it altogether. If not, it usually isn't of the type that will become a problem farther down the road.

There is some level of concern for illnesses that a fish's immune system hasn't yet been exposed to - tank germs vs nature germs - but just like people, fish that are healthy and stress free typically have a strong and adaptable enough immune system to fight off even those things that it has never encountered before. There are exceptions to every rule, and there are ALWAYS those big evil swiftly-killing nasties out there that make the QT process even more important. . . and of them, there are certain protozoan and other parasitic infections that make me super skeezy still. Loaches are known for such things, and because of these, many people DO bring them (and other fish) into QT with high heat and chems at the ready and treat with a broad-range anti parasitic medication just to be super sure. I'm always tempted to do this, but I have a really hard time putting already stressed fish under the additional stress of medicating until/unless I can visibly see that it's necessary. Depending on the nature of the issue, it can already be too late by the time they start dying - but you could also cause harm and death by medicating without obvious cause. THERE IS NO RIGHT WAY - and there are risks of losses on both sides, and QT methods that fall in-between, too. It's up to you to figure out what you feel comfortable with, and what you think is the best way to safeguard the health of all involved. . .

Anyway, I don't know anything about fish, I'm just paranoid, too, and read too much. . . I do know that from what I've seen here and on other forums over the last year or so indicates that what happened in your tank is NOT typical, most especially not with fish that have gone through some kind of quarantine period. So I'm thinking (and hoping!) that you will never have a problem remotely resembling that ever again. Because, MAN! That was heartbreaking. . .

I've never had a problem with crypt melt, either. Crypt rot is environmental, and can be caused by a lot of different things though you will find it listed in the 'diseases' section of most plant books. One thing that can play a part is a change in lighting. . . you mentioned that your other plants are doing really well (yay!) It could be that the duckweed canopy is forcing your Wendtii to adapt to lower lighting levels - this could cause the older leaves to drop. The new growth will be better suited to the lighting that is now available. Silly crypts. . . to the best of my knowledge, there IS nothing that you can do to stop it once it's started. By the time we see visible signs of leaves failing, they're already set on their course. The best thing you can do is what you're doing already - clean up after them, don't make any changes, and leave those roots alone. They'll be back, they almost always are :) It's SO distressing to watch, though. . .

Last edited by Chesh; 04-22-2013 at 01:58 PM..
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