Nubster's 75g log

BarbH

I have had stores that I have passed on buying fish from, because I have seen things that look like ich in their tanks. Before buying fish I always check out all of their tanks to see how the fish are looking.

Nubster

Went by the store today after work with a water sample and explained what happened. They gave me credit for the fish lost. I went and looked at all the fish in all the tanks and none look sick, not even the tank with the Black Neons that mine came from. I guess the stress of the new tank and/or something different about my tank set off the illness. At least they made it right and I let them know about the problem.

Got home to another floater. I just hope the deaths stay isolated to the Black Neons...the other fish to this point seem pretty unaffected. I was able to pickup more meds so I will continue treatment and hope that takes care of the problem.

Nubster

Lost an oto and another neon. Down to 3 neons...started with 11. Now it looks like the three remaining have ick. I'm wondering if that's what is killing most of them at this point. They are probably so stressed and weak that the ick is getting them and killing them so fast they don't even have time to show the white spots. I am going to stop by the LFS tomorrow on the way home and grab a new tank (Petco is having their $1 a gallon sale right now) for hospital/quarantine duties. Also...I might try the salt/heat method but if I have to resort to meds, and I have to treat the remaining two otos, any suggestions on what meds are safe for them and if I have to treat the main tank, what will be safe for future additions of shrimp to the tank?

Byron

The ich is likely secondary, as the black neon in the photo previously posted did not have ich but more likely columnaris as Barb suggested. Ich attacks when fish are weakened or under stress, which is why it is so common with new fish.

The best ich treatment is raising the heat plus Coppersafe. Salt also works but characins are particularly sensitive to salt so this is only going to add more stress. Coppersafe is a better treatment with soft water fish. Raise the tank temp to 85F and add one dose of Coppersafe (1 teaspoon per 4 gallons of water--water, not tank size). I always do a water change immediately prior to treatment with CS since the water change dilutes the CS and one treatment is sufficient without. I keep the temp raised for a week; I raise and lower it naturally by adjusting the heater. After the week, do a water change; I usually wait 10 days. I do not re-dose CS.

Do not use plant fertilizer (another reason for the water change before treatment) as the additional copper can be detrimental. It may affect invertebrates (snails); some of my small snails certainly made it through treatment, though I thought they were fewer afterwards.

The above is safe to use after treating with Maracyn according to Mardel. Normally, treatments should not be combined as certain medications can interact, but Mardel make both products and recommend joint treatments in their instructions.

Byron.

Nubster

4 more dead and 2 dying. Now the tetras are kicking the bucket. I give up.

BarbH

Sorry that you have still been having deaths in the tank. It can be discouraging when experiencing so many deaths.

Nubster

Yeah...the dying are dead. Not sure what to do at this point. Let them all die, nuke the tank and start over I guess.

BarbH

Letting things run their course and than starting over will probably be best. I have read of others having bad columnaris outbreaks which have wiped out entire tanks. Not sure what is recommended for cleaning the tank after to make sure the disease is not introduced to new stock. With further reading had seen there are four different strains, 2 of them have high mortaility rates. When you do get new stock might want to consider getting them from another source.

Nubster

Yeah...that's for sure. I have bought just a few fish from this place before but never had an issue. That was several years ago. The tanks are "clean" and it is a reputable store...but this bad experience is certainly enough for me to stay away from anything but dry goods. Bad thing is...only other options are Petsmart and Petco though I have always had good luck at Petsmart. If nothing else...this is certainly a lesson in the importance of a quarantine tank.

As far as cleaning the tank...I'd say a couple gallons of bleach and lots of fresh water and conditioner should do it. Let everything soak a couple days and go from there.

Here is a question though...bacteria...do I need to sanitize my filter sponges or will they possibly be safe to use so I can avoid having to go through another 6 week cycle?

Nubster

Todays deathtoll so far...at least 6...I found a couple sinkers behind the big rock on the left side of the tank when I removed it trying to catch the remaining live fish. All are in a bucket now with a small pump, heater, and sponge from my filter. Water is fresh and clean and conditioned. Debating on whether to continue treating the fish with the Furan or just play the wait game and see what happens.